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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
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Author
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Topic: 35mm Digital Sound Playback Preference?
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Scott Norwood
Film God
Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 04-28-2010 12:13 PM
So, um, exactly how many drive-ins have sound systems of high enough quality to justify a fancy radio with decoding capability? Most seem to have FM stereo now, but I've not seen or heard of any other than Jack's that have digital sound.
I think that the idea of a car radio with surround decoding is a neat idea for those of us who enjoy drive-ins, but we will never see it as a factory-installed item. It won't sell one more vehicle, and the market is so limited that it wouldn't be worthwhile, anyway. Most people just want to listen to the news or background music, and few will pay for anything more than an AM/FM stereo radio with CD player.
I do kind of like the surround-channels-on-a-separate frequency idea, with a boom box placed behind the rear seat. It would be tough to get the levels right, though. And it doesn't support EX.
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Jack Ondracek
Film God
Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 04-28-2010 12:59 PM
quote: Sean McKinnon
I am suprised you even bother with digital at a drive in instead of just sending lt and rt. How do you mix down the channels into 2? Do you have each channel going into a mixer in put panned for left right or center? How do you have the surrounds/LFE set?
Like I was saying, with nothing to compare it to, SR would be more than adequate at a drive-in. However, there are differences that, like many of you, I can hear... enough that I feel I'm providing a better product.
Our digital boxes and red readers feed CP-65s here.
Yes, we use mixers... active ones, to isolate the channels. Left channel & left surrounds are panned left, right channel and right surrounds are panned right, center and subs are not panned... though I'm finding that use of the sub channel is questionable.
We feed the output of the mixer into a switcher and a broadcast automation system, allowing me to route the audio directly to the processor or through the automation for programming purposes. From there, the audio feeds through a multiband processor, to reduce dynamics (pretty much need to do that in cars), and then to a (very) low power Broadcast Warehouse transmitter.
The switcher allows me to bypass the automation and run the sound without most of the gizmoes... both for reliability and backup purposes. That would also make it easier for someone else to run the booth, should that become necessary.
quote: Scott Norwood
So, um, exactly how many drive-ins have sound systems of high enough quality to justify a fancy radio with decoding capability? Most seem to have FM stereo now, but I've not seen or heard of any other than Jack's that have digital sound.
There are a few, though I'd have to spend some time to come up with a real number.
In addition to my place, I know that the Transit Drive-In has at least one screen on SR-D. Kansas City's Boulevard Drive-In claims to be the first (could be). I've seen DTS players in the booth pictures of a few more, but the names don't come to mind offhand. Many of the recent startups (yes, there have been a few of them!) have a good chance at decent sound, since the usually aren't adapting leftover speaker systems.
Unfortunately, I suspect there are still more drive-ins that feed undecoded audio through their systems than not. The FM systems that market to drive-ins, such as the Ramsey, Skymaster and Jack Roe transmitters, have no NR decoding. The Jack Roe website actually promotes this fact as an advantage, suggesting less circuitry is a good thing. I know of one or two that have "sound systems by Radio Shack", and at least one that's still running their "wall of Motiograph" amplifiers, taking a tap to feed their FM box.
In practice, using the undecoded audio sort-of addresses the dynamics issue. However, the reasons you wouldn't want to do that at an indoor house also apply at the drive-in.
More recently, Smart adapted one of their processors for drive-in use. It's much better than nothing at all, but I found the CP-65 to be more stable and natural-sounding out here. I think a couple of drive-ins are using the same boxes, but I doubt any of them were purchased new for the purpose.
There might be some potential in being able to send a digital stream to a car. However, the variables make benefits dubious. Hearing real surrounds would be cool. On the other hand, many of my customers watch the show from the back of their cars/trucks/SUVs. In those cases the stereo field is reversed as it is. Adding surrounds would really enhance that effect.
Finally, my opinion is that there's a real need to use some kind of processor to reduce dynamics and manage the effects of the FM preemphasis curve. In a sense, adding digital, or using real NR decoding on your optical fixes some issues, but creates others. Practically speaking, with FM you have about a 40dB window to work with. This is far more than anyone expects in an automotive setting, but less than is offered by a decoded or digital sound system. Without processing, a range that you'd find acceptable in an auditorium would have a car user constantly adjusting his volume control. Once adjusted for normal dialog, a minor explosion would put the radio into clipping pretty fast. In come cars, you could damage stuff.
All of this, plus the fact that each car represents its own unequalized auditorium, with no ideal seating placement, really makes it impossible to do much more than "make it sound good" at a drive-in. With no standards to define the term, those of us who pay some attention to our sound, basically "do the best we can", and rely on the few comments we get from our patrons to gauge how well we do.
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