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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Dolby Digital Drop-out Adjustment (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Dolby Digital Drop-out Adjustment
Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-02-2010 12:47 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, why do you think it is stupid that the video level is in the installer's menu? Just curious.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-02-2010 03:52 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Because there is no reason to put it there. If one has a problem and you are trying to diagnose it (over the phone, in some cases, as a service company)...putting the CP650 in installer mode, requires passing through the Pink Noise/set up menus to get to the Video Level.

There is nothing about the video level that is "dangerous" for the end user...it isn't an adjustment, just a display. It is no more dangerous than the "error thermometer" in the DA10/20/CP500.

Steve

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-05-2010 08:57 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whoops! A while ago, Markus asked, "My real question is since Dolby Digital is already buffering the sound for my penthouse reader by nearly 3 seconds, couldn't it just compensate by doubling up known blocks so that the sound does not drop when it gets to the damaged area?"

That's not now it works. There's not a huge amount of redundancy in SRD. There is some, but generally not enough to compensate for four consecutive bad blocks.

Buffering doesn't help you -- when the splice goes through the reader, it fails to read the digital track. The fact that this is decoupled from the time at which that data plays does not help it get the data back.

For the special case of reel-end splices, Dolby implements "splice caching" where the data blocks for that time are included elsewhere in the reel (additional redundancy), so those splices don't cause SRD to drop out. But that level of redundancy is not generally available with SRD, so you're out luck.

--jhawk

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Markus Lemm
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 113
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 2005


 - posted 05-05-2010 03:51 PM      Profile for Markus Lemm   Author's Homepage   Email Markus Lemm   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I should clarify my question a bit better.
I was thinking that on my reader the offset is 270 blocks or about 2.8 seconds so the processor has time to duplicate some blocks over time to compensate for unreadable blocks. Let me give an example of what I mean.
Lets says the reader is unable to read 10 blocks of data in a row. This value is sent to the card that buffers the sound.
Lets says that every 24 blocks or 6 frames the offset buffer duplicates a block of data.
So after 240 blocks or 2.5 seconds the sound is "stretched" to compensate for the loss.
I realize that for the basement reader guys this would not be effective since the offset is too short but for anyone with a penthouse reader this could really help.
Any Dolby engineers out there?

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-05-2010 04:28 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah.

The operation you ask about is not implemented.

The SRD processor has plenty of time to do it, however. The SRD track leads the analog track by 6 frames, which leads the picture by 20 frames. Even in the worst case of a basement reader, there are 250ms to perform such an operation, and that kind of operation would take less than 1ms to execute.

A lot depends on what you mean by "stretching." Generally speaking, let's imagine it needs 1 frame's worth of time to process the data. Once it has seen 4 frames of missing data (16 perfs), it would need to decide whether to drop to analog or to execute such a "stretch." It can't know whether there will be 4 more missing frames, or 40 frames, or never.

Many would argue that it is much better to fallback to analog immediately (10ms for a block or 42ms for a frame) rather than try to do any "tricks."

It is true that generally speaking repeating the last block probably sounds better than silence, and that empirically, sometimes you do get silence.

I believe Dolby also does do some psychoacoustical masking in the event of bad data, but that may merely be because of high error rates and not because of entirely unreadable blocks.

Anyhow, the short answer is it doesn't really do what you're asking for, and it is not because of time limitations. Philosophically I don't think there's widespread agreement that such a thing would be Correct to do, but they could certainly do a bit better than they do at present.

--jhawk

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