Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Does SONY still make and market SDDS players?

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Film Handlers' Forum » Does SONY still make and market SDDS players? (Page 2)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4

Author

Topic: Does SONY still make and market SDDS players?

Bernie Anderson Jr
Master Film Handler

Posts: 435
From: Woodbridge, New Jersey
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-17-2010 08:23 PM

my understanding, the offest between the two tracks are 19 frames difference

| IP: Logged

Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 08-19-2010 01:01 PM

Steve/Bernie:

I stand corrected, thank you both. My information came from a former AMC tech, who we all know had tons of SDDS units.

Come to think of it, he wasn't the sharpest tool in the tool chest... [Big Grin]

I still stand by my remark that SDDS has the worst track location and reliability.

| IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 08-19-2010 01:13 PM

My understanding that a new SDDS track would only last a week or two. Afterwards, the error counts would begin to climb on the soundtrack side before the other one would begin to kick in.

Also, didn't Dolby have a fit with this and threatened lawsuit for copyright infringement since it basically had the same form of track layout and read method as did the Dolby?

| IP: Logged

Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 08-19-2010 01:21 PM

I don't know about lawsuits, but I was told (if this is true or not I have no idea but it makes a great story) that when the studios ordered all the players to make sure they could exist on the same print (no mulit-inventory like in the past), when Dolby had to send samples of its track to Sony they replaced the "double-D" logo with a picture of Ray Dolby giving them the finger. [fu]

Sony sent the sample back with a picture that was supposedly the head of Sony mooning them. [Moon]

This exchange allegedly went on for the duration of the track development process.

| IP: Logged

Marin Zorica
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia
Registered: May 2003

posted 08-19-2010 03:49 PM

Hmmm....when talking about last of SDDS track, I have some traillers and print, both have SDDS and Dolby D, few of them even can't read more than F on Dolby, but when played on SDDS it work's even without any drop.....but, this can't be precise factor, as prints can be damaged on different area.

And, Sony was first to use visible red light, as will give more immune reading due scratches and so if I'm correct?

| IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-19-2010 07:48 PM

I think a lot depends on how your prints are cared for. Because of its proximity to the edge, SDDS is extremely suceptible to dirt, perhaps more so than it is to scratching (which SRD is). But dirt can be removed and prevented.

So if you run a very clean booth or use filmguard or various other factors, SDDS can have extremely good performance.

Also, anecdotally, we have heard here on Film-Tech that the labs are much better at churning out SDDS prints now than they were 10 years ago, which is somewhat ironic given the state of things...

--jhawk

| IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-20-2010 03:41 AM

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
I don't know about lawsuits, but I was told (if this is true or not I have no idea but it makes a great story) that when the studios ordered all the players to make sure they could exist on the same print (no mulit-inventory like in the past), when Dolby had to send samples of its track to Sony they replaced the "double-D" logo with a picture of Ray Dolby giving them the finger.

I donno about that but I do know that Sony had to license many of the optical digital track patents from Dolby in order to be able to do their "on film" sound track. This is but one reason why the first Sony demos at Showest came off a hard drive.

Mark

| IP: Logged

Peter Castle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 08-20-2010 03:52 AM

I must say that over all the years I ran film and had the choice of all three digital sound systems, SDDS was the most reliable on used prints, even prints a few years old. Dolby tracks were often bad from day 1.
And I agree that the equalisation always made it sound best.

| IP: Logged

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-20-2010 04:56 AM

quote: Peter Castle
Dolby tracks were often bad from day 1

Day 1 after 9 weeks in a multiplex you mean, right?

| IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 08-20-2010 05:01 AM

Tonight, we ended "Toy Story 3" that opened in an SRD house with CAT701 on top of a P35 .. and after these 6 weeks, I still have "2's and 3's" for error rates..

| IP: Logged

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-20-2010 05:10 AM

From my old Moulin Rouge thread. (Search it in the FHF)

quote: John Wilson
Okay, the definative test for the efficiency of FilmGuard has ended here. After 11 weeks and 254 passes, we have finally finished with the print.
It leaves in 'as new if not better' condition. Not a single speck of dirt, dust or markings of any kind and with an SRD error rating hitting 0. in some parts of the film on a basement reader.

NO kidding, Michael Barry witnessed this phenomenon

quote: Michael Barry
Indeed, I was there! It looked better after all those runs than many films I've turned up to at (insert major megaplex here) on opening weekend! It didn't just look good for the age - it just looked incredible in an absolute sense. And yes, the Dolby Digital error rate was on 0 when I looked

So Peter, apart from the fact I am using Film Guard (as should everyone) unless you are referring to your 1st screening of used prints second run, I'm not sure what you are talking about...

| IP: Logged

Peter Castle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 08-20-2010 08:55 AM

My comparison between the three sound formats is based on the tracks on the same print. Whether the print is brand new or four weeks old, if the SDDS track is in the most vulnerable part of the film, why is it fine but the Dolby Digital is already dropping out.
My comment about from day 1 is as a result of speaking to others who do run new prints.

| IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-20-2010 09:24 AM

One possible explanation for the Dolby Digital track error rate: print wear on the sprocket holes. If the teeth on various rollers aren't lining up perfectly with the print's sprocket holes it's possible for anything from nearly unnoticeable bends and stretches to outright print damage to occur. That could cause just enough very slight distortion for what the Dolby Digital reader sees to cause the error rate to rise.

| IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 08-20-2010 01:12 PM

..or bad and/or worn trap and gate runners which is like sandpaper and scratches up a SRD track in no time .... or a projector with worn rotating parts where the film can't come across the scanning area at a smooth and steady travel..

| IP: Logged

Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 08-20-2010 01:29 PM

...or Peter's SRD readers are in need of alignment...I have a test film that reads 4-5 on properly aligned readers but will fail on readers that are slightly out of alignment. By way of comparison, my good test film will read 2-3 on good readers and 5-6 on marginal ones.

Since he said this: (bold and edit is mine)

quote: Peter Castle
Whether the print is brand new or four weeks old, why is (SDDS) fine but the Dolby Digital is already dropping out.

I think his SRD readers are out of adjustment, or as Monte suggested he has bad trap bands or other parts that are damaging the SRD tracks.

Either way a service call by a competent tech is in order for his theatre.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.