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Topic: future discrete 7.1 surround sound films

Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 10-17-2010 05:49 AM

doesn't all - or almost - pixar movies have panned dialogues?

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Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008

posted 10-18-2010 08:56 AM

panned dialogue in Toy Story 2 is very noticable.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 10-18-2010 02:54 PM

Certainly since 'CARS' they've panned dialogue anyway.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
I see it as a replacement for the now dead Dolby EX format. This one will also be dead in just a few years time. I'll bet money on that.

Wow! Mark and I agree on something. [Razz]

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 10-18-2010 05:00 PM

quote: Manny Knowles
recall sony's marketing packet for sdds-8 claimed that the extra channels reduced "competition" among sound elements for a channel -- for example, music could be routed to le/re whereas effects could be routed to l/r -- this has stuck with me as something to get more information on -- emotionally, i can buy into it but, since it came out of a marketing packet, i have to question it until some proof emerges. any thoughts???

That was certainly one of the strong selling points of SDDS-8 mixes - the Centre could be kept free of Music and FX for Dialogue only. This gave great clarity in the theatre - I well remember seeing Godzilla in SDDS-8 and it was astounding (at least the sound was, anyway [Smile]

).

I believe great things were also said of the SDDS-8 mix for U-571, among others.

Post sound magazine Mix carried many fine articles on films with SDDS-8 mixes over the years; back issues may be available.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 10-18-2010 05:50 PM

If wikipedia is to be believed, the list of films released in SDDS-8 is more extensive than I was aware of, including a dozen so far in 2010.

Paul Blart: Mall Cop was in SDDS-8?? [Eek!]

The one and only movie I know for sure that I saw in SDDS-8 was Spider-Man in 2002 and my recollection is it sounded awesome.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 10-22-2010 07:55 PM

As far as DTS-ES is concerned, there are a total of 5 movies in 2010 with DTS-ES:

From Paris with Love
Alice in Wonderland
Oceans
Toy Story 3
Tron: Legacy

The IMDb lists 13 movies released in 2010 with Dolby Digital EX, and Wikipedia thinks that 12 movies were released in SDDS-8. The only 7.1 channel release that we can be sure about is Toy Story 3.
Is it safe to assume that the superset of those movies, if available via Digital Cinema, would be available with more than 5.1 channels of lossless sound? My guess is that such an assumption would be an unsafe one...

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 10-22-2010 08:03 PM

How can a movie be in Dolby Digital EX and not DTS-ES and vice/versa? Isn't the same basic matrix used (derive center surround from Ls and Rs in-phase common)? You can use Dolby Digital with a DTS-ES unit, etc. I doubt you can mix for one and not mix for the other since I'm pretty sure that DTS and Dolby Digital always use the same master, theatrically. I think the only difference is which is coded to "auto-engage" the center surround on their respective units.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 10-22-2010 08:41 PM

Joe,
Just because a movie was mixed such that DTS-ES could be used doesn't mean they pressed DTS disks that have the ES part on them...

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-22-2010 09:06 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Commercial movie theaters are already delivering lossless or uncompressed surround sound, at least in terms of the ones equipped with digital projection systems. Unfortunately hardly anyone has been marketing this fact.

For what it's worth, we get around 20,000 customers a year in here and not one of them has ever asked me if our sound is lossy or lossless.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 10-22-2010 10:48 PM

Mike, your customers are too stupid to know that movie theaters have been using compressed sound for decades now. OK... I'll settle for "uninformed" and not "stupid".

quote: Chris Skylord
Joe,
Just because a movie was mixed such that DTS-ES could be used doesn't mean they pressed DTS disks that have the ES part on them...

Which is why I said:

quote: Joe Redifer
I think the only difference is which is coded to "auto-engage" the center surround on their respective units.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 10-23-2010 12:10 AM

Touche. Although I was thinking more along the lines of them possibly having it automated to only include the 5.1 portions for the DTS disk rather than them going out of their way to remix the soundtrack, although I gotta admit that's an unlikely scenario. Perhaps I shouldn't post when I'm focusing on a pediatrics final...

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-23-2010 07:22 PM

I can tell you they don't remix ES/EX for 5.1 -- mainly because ES/EX are actually 5.1 mixes to begin with

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Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008

posted 10-26-2010 10:23 PM

quote: Scott Jentsch
As far as DTS-ES is concerned, there are a total of 5 movies in 2010 with DTS-ES:

From Paris with Love
Alice in Wonderland
Oceans
Toy Story 3
Tron: Legacy
The IMDb lists 13 movies released in 2010 with Dolby Digital EX, and Wikipedia thinks that 12 movies were released in SDDS-8. The only 7.1 channel release that we can be sure about is Toy Story 3.
Is it safe to assume that the superset of those movies, if available via Digital Cinema, would be available with more than 5.1 channels of lossless sound? My guess is that such an assumption would be an unsafe one...

'Oceans' was DTS ES ?? - interesting I didn't know that. Would it be safe to assume the bluray has the matrixed rear center of sound.

The blu-ray of 'Alice in Wonderland' is 6.1 but it's not indicated as such anywhere on the back cover.

It's seems to be a pattern on Pixar/Disney blurays that have matrixed rear ES/EX but not indicated as such. The Toy Story 3 bluray states the French and Spanish tracks are Dolby EX, but also include DTS 5.1 (ES) and discrete DTS 7.1.

Step Up 3(D) was also released in discrete 7.1 in the theaters and the upcoming December bluray edition.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-26-2010 10:29 PM

Considering many Wikipedia pages are open for just about anyone to edit, I wouldn't consider any SDDS-8 movies list shown there to automatically be error free.

It's sort of like people using that "Brands of the World" website assuming all the logos there are legit. They don't realize many, if not most of them, are knock-offs made by whoever -with quite a few of the knock-offs being laughably bad.

quote: Mike Blakesley
For what it's worth, we get around 20,000 customers a year in here and not one of them has ever asked me if our sound is lossy or lossless.

My guess is the vast majority (perhaps nearly all) movie-goers don't know any better. You only see the logos for the old lossy compressed surround formats used in movie marketing materials when the show is in theatrical release. The old lossy format logos are used on the movie posters. And the old lossy format logos are all that's ever shown on the end credits as well. Uncompressed audio is never mentioned, even though it is a standard feature with digital cinema and could be a commonly used feature for film-based theaters using DTS XD10 and XD20 processors.

Over in home theater circles lots of tech-heads have a major shit fit if a movie is released on Blu-ray without a lossless or uncompressed track. Warner Bros. caught all kinds of hell about it from both fans and critics. There's so many vocal DTS fans that it seems like just about every major studio is using DTS-HD Master Audio heavily or even exclusively on their Blu-ray releases.

Dolby Surround 7.1 is the first attempt, a kind of feeble one, to give people a hint that theaters can deliver digital audio tracks just as good as the ones being pressed onto Blu-ray discs. I don't think it does enough to really educate customers about the difference.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 10-27-2010 02:14 AM

I still don't know why theatrical 7.1 sound is branded as "Dolby". Dolby has nothing to do with it. That's like AIWA claiming AIWA 2.0 stereo sound for CDs or some shit.

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