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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Is 35mm print standard 5.1 obsolete? (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Is 35mm print standard 5.1 obsolete?
Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted 02-02-2011 11:13 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
^ yet vinyl is making a comeback

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 02-03-2011 12:25 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some of my Aurora trailers were auto-ex, some not. Not to mention some EX movies with some reels reverting to Format 10.

I second Brad: Thanks DTS, it has always been our only way to identify EX prints.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-03-2011 12:54 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Auto-EX-related question: the CP65 manual makes mention of a device (I forget the cat number, but it is in the manual) that will automatically detect SR prints using some sort of code on the film. Does anyone have this device? Was the auto-SR system ever implemented?

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 02-04-2011 05:24 PM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The issue is how much longer are 35mm prints going to be around?

Most of the major exhibitors are going digital in the near future. I would say that going forward in the next few years 35mm film will be a format that is used mainly in smaller independently owned theatres. (Rather than in common use in the major chains).

35mm film is not obsolete at the moment, although it seems clear that it is being phased out. I don’t see why anyone would currently want to invest in new technology for film, since it seems film as a whole is being phased out.

Let’s look at the state of DVDs and Bluerays at the moment. Both are available but I would assume that soon enough movies will be released on Blueray only, until DVDs are no longer available. The same will happen soon enough in movie theatres.

Realistically we can’t be that far away from a time when a major Hollywood movie will be released only as a DCP with no 35mm prints struck.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 02-04-2011 06:04 PM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I could see DCP only soon, but what about sub runs and art houses? Does this also mean that art houses may have to pay more to even get prints once things go mostly digital?

AJG

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 02-04-2011 07:51 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Probably not legal under antitrust. Louis

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-04-2011 09:38 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think you'll be surprised at how long film prints will be around. Their demise really isn't as soon as you all seem to think.

-Steve

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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover

Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 02-05-2011 01:13 AM      Profile for Tom Petrov     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Aaron Garman
but what about sub runs and art houses?
TIFF played the small independent "Enter The Void" in digital. The Carlton is playing the film right now and I think it is 35mm as they only have blu-ray capability for digital.

Out west of the GTA, The Princess Twin played Back to the Future in 35mm while the AMC played it in Digital.

So it is all over the place IMO.

I have noticed that my local idependent who has a RealD projection plays a number of films in digital and then a few weeks into the run, they get the 35mm 2D print.

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 02-05-2011 05:50 PM      Profile for Martin Brooks   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Brooks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jonathan Goeldner
^ yet vinyl is making a comeback
Not really...that's just hype.

2.9 million LPs were sold in 2008 and 3.2 million were sold in 2009. While that's growth, that constitutes only 0.17% of unit sales, 0.79% of long-form unit sales (albums) and 0.77% of music industry revenue (at list price). 2010 sales might have been a bit higher (official numbers not out yet), but it's still nothing more than a rounding error. (In the heyday of vinyl, a single album could sell that many units in a year.)

The music industry is dying quickly. The industry is now half of the size it was in 1999, its peak year and that doesn't even include inflation. Citibank took over EMI this week and put it on the market quickly in order to beat Time-Warner putting Warner Music Group on the market and if anyone buys these, it won't be for the labels, but for the music publishing.

In fact, the last two weeks hit records for the lowest number of sales ever resulting in a Billboard #1 hit: I think it was around 50,000 copies.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 02-05-2011 09:10 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
5.1 isn't any more dead than mono is. Ask Woody Allen.

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Peter Howard
Film Handler

Posts: 44
From: Forster, NSW, Australia
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted 02-05-2011 10:13 PM      Profile for Peter Howard   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Howard   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tom Petrov
I have noticed that my local idependent who has a RealD projection plays a number of films in digital and then a few weeks into the run, they get the 35mm 2D print.
And in the not too distant future, I predict they'll just shelve the RealD and either play flat digital, or revert to 35mm.

An awful lot of 3D product coming out at the moment that's not putting extra bums on seats, if anything it's stopping some from coming at all.

We played Tangled in both 2D 35mm and Panastereo digi 3D, and stopped 3D sessions after 2 weeks. The audience were voting with their wallets which was more popular.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-05-2011 11:25 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Martin Brooks
The music industry is dying quickly. The industry is now half of the size it was in 1999, its peak year and that doesn't even include inflation. Citibank took over EMI this week and put it on the market quickly in order to beat Time-Warner putting Warner Music Group on the market and if anyone buys these, it won't be for the labels, but for the music publishing.
You know, this might actually be a good thing.

IMHO, the biggest problem with the music industry, by far, has been its ownership by a handful of giant, multi-national media corporations. Giant, publicly traded companies hate risk. They don't like taking chances on new ideas, particuarly any sort of unproven style of new music. They very much prefer to sell the public the same old shit but give the music different, younger faces and updated packaging. Media corporations have held tight fisted control over what kinds of music are distributed for more than 20 years.

The music industry doesn't work well under those conditions. The music industry thrives on change. That involves taking chances on new talent with very different musical styles that aren't yet market proven. That's risky. And big businesses hate risk.

Decades ago big changes in musical styles could make or break a record label. Music companies that have big corporate parents can afford to take chances, but a bad choice will negatively affect the company stock, so the corporate parent forces its record label to make very conservative, safe choices on what to produce.

The music industry has not had a healthy house-cleaning of musical styles since 1990. Prior to that, every few years we would see big changes. Sales have been declining for a decade because the overall product is stale. Compare the performers and music of the 1970s or 1980s to today's crop of popular music. There's no contest. The 20-30 year old stuff is way better. With today's music sounding so derivative on average it actually helps "dinosaur bands" stick around and keep raking in big bucks on concert tours. If the industry was allowing the natural cycle of artistic change to take place a lot of dinosaur bands would be forced to call it a day and retire.

The movie industry has been repeating the same nonsense as well. But it's no coincidence. Movie studios are owned by the same companies that own all the music labels.

I think the stifling control on music is also hurting changes in the technology of how music is presented. I think if there was a lot more successful independent labels we would also be seeing more music distributed in a wider variety of ways.

I'm rooting for Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross to win the Best Score Oscar for The Social Network. The independent Null label has made the soundtrack available to buy in a variety of formats: Internet downloads in MP3, Flac Lossless or Apple Lossless; a standard music CD priced significantly lower than what most new CDs cost; a 180g vinyl LP double album; a Blu-ray Audio disc featuring high resolution stereo and 5.1 mixes.

With less corporate involvement there's a small chance we could see a return to proper music mastering practices rather than the stupid crap we have now where the mastering folks artificially jack up the volume, compress the dynamics and clip the audio peaks all to hell.

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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover

Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 02-06-2011 03:53 AM      Profile for Tom Petrov     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Peter Howard
And in the not too distant future, I predict they'll just shelve the RealD and either play flat digital, or revert to 35mm.

An awful lot of 3D product coming out at the moment that's not putting extra bums on seats, if anything it's stopping some from coming at all.

We played Tangled in both 2D 35mm and Panastereo digi 3D, and stopped 3D sessions after 2 weeks. The audience were voting with their wallets which was more popular.

While I agree 3D will die out, movie companies are very unlikely going to go back to 35mm. The digital advantage is just to large to go back. 3D will take a dive soon and will then return with James Cameron's Avatar II. Just my opinion.

Those who are running 35mm will be very much behind those who are running digital.

As for the comparo to vinyl. The major chains who sell music cds in my area do not carry vinyl. It is the specialty run record shops that carry it.

I can't see a business surviving on selling just vinyls and I can't see a theatre surviving on just 35mm.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-06-2011 01:10 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our film booker told me last April that he thought film would be around for quite a while, but it would be increasingly harder to get prints as time goes on. That was already happening with some film companies (especially Warner Bros. which hates to move prints around) -- it was either play the movie on the break or wait six or eight weeks.

He estimated that within 5 years it would be extremely difficult for us to get prints on a timely basis and he said "If you're serious about the business and want to stay in it, you're going to have to go digital at some point and probably fairly soon." So that's what we did.

Since we've gone to digital there have probably been at least a half-dozen or more times when we've been able to get movies two or three weeks sooner than the film theatre in the larger town down the road could, simply because there were no 35mm prints available.

With the studios getting ready to screw the exhibitors even harder by offering premium video-on-demand 30 to 60 days after theatrical (and when that levels off, they'll reduce the DVD window to the same time-frame), it's going to become even more important to play movies on the break or as soon as possible after.

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