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Author Topic: BY PASSING AUTOMATION ON A KINOTON FP20 Ben Wales Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 602 From: Southampton. England Registered: Jul 99 posted 10-16-2011 04:10 PM                     Most of those FP20's (like the one in the picture above) have Invertors, so will need to trace the wireing loom and make a new Switch circuit should one not be wired on the mech for Motor run. Should the original Kinoton/Philips Electrical Wire Block is in the base trace back to the AC 240v input which is numbered (20 +,40E ,60-). Also check what Relay Circuit is used as the Contactor Switch for the Motor Relay, I expect this is controled by the Automation and the switch on the Projector is a quick contact switch circuit. Always check with a Mutltimeter with NO Live Power when checking circuits out!.  |  IP: Logged Rob Clarke Tucker Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Erith, Kent., United Kingdom Registered: Oct 2011 posted 10-16-2011 04:43 PM                     Hi Pete, Hope the pictures help, from what Ben spoke about it appears that both start up button and inch down needs to be rewired . So if anyone knows how to rewire this back so that it works as a stand alone FP20 then please let me know. As the relays are in the back door I guess the buttons functions need to be wired back to the back door on the terminal block thou not sure on what number that would be. No expert but was thinking this might be the only way. Hopefully Ben or Pete can confirm this or give me an idea how to get this back to how it should be as I feel I am half way there.  |  IP: Logged Tom Holdsworth Film Handler Posts: 7 From: Welwyn, Herts. U.K. Registered: Sep 2011 posted 10-17-2011 11:06 AM                     Hello, Thanks Ben, AC input connected and the machine runs. Rob, On my FP20 the large relay on the big board mounted in the door closes when the green button is depressed as does the upper small relay above it, when the white button is pressed for inching neither relay operates, (I presume your machine operates identically). All the wires cut to remove the machine ran to this board. It seems to me therefore that the door mounted board is part of the automation system and not strictly needed. I think the best way forward is to try to identify which of the external contacts hold the relays latched or to simply install a new relay to short out the contacts on the green button. I also think that it may be that a film break (or other sensor) may be preventing the machine running. One other thing should the LED's light up on the sound head or are they infra red? Mine don't light up. Tom  |  IP: Logged Rob Clarke Tucker Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Erith, Kent., United Kingdom Registered: Oct 2011 posted 10-17-2011 12:41 PM                     Hi Tom, Sounds like you have not got a voltage supply to your Digital reader. So you will have to try and find one. If you have got one and the wires might be cut you will find this situated at the bottom on your left hand side (underneath fly wheel. Looking at how these have been re-wired start button and dowser button, inching button, i would assume that these will need to be wired back to the terminal block on the inside door. I have noted the modifications made for the automation with the dowser button, inching button and start button from the terminal block on the back door. Thou really need confirmation where the wires should go assuming the wires from the buttons need to be connected back to the board with the relays so these actually work? I would rather keep everything original as it was before it was modified. As you have the relays for the job along with the voltage supply for the pilot light and dowser. Just a question of rewiring it back. As most of the wires are colour coded it could be possible. Thou confirmation diagrams is a must before work can be carried out.  |  IP: Logged Tom Holdsworth Film Handler Posts: 7 From: Welwyn, Herts. U.K. Registered: Sep 2011 posted 10-18-2011 12:04 PM                     I have a board at the bottom front of the projector which supplies +15 and -15V plus two LED outputs and a 2 volt output marked En+ and En-, this goes to the lower relay on the inside of the door and appears to be simply short circuited by the relay when energised. I have the +- 15V and 2 volts on En but nothing on the LED outputs. Are the LED's switched on and off with the changeover system or does the automation switch them on or off as needed, if so what needs to be done to restore the LED voltages, all the fuses are intact. Thanks Tom  |  IP: Logged Adam Gibson Film Handler Posts: 4 From: leicester, leicestershire, UK Registered: Feb 2010 posted 08-28-2012 02:38 PM                     hi all, just wondering if anyone got the fp20 running has i have the same problem holding my finger on the start button and yes its ex cineworld if anyone got there's running could you please help kind regards adam  |  IP: Logged Jonathan Wood Expert Film Handler Posts: 206 From: Oxfordshire, United kingdom Registered: Jan 2008 posted 09-04-2012 03:32 PM                     Hi Adam, seems like you have a machine that depending on the last settings of the automation unit a permanent STOP was created when the PLC was set to “interlock” mode when it was switched off the last time. That means the projector will only run as long as somebody is pressing the Start button; not ideal. It should be possible to bypass the automation board and run the machine manually. You should get in touch with either Omnex Pro Film or you could try hadek@kinoton.de, he might be able to offer some advice but dont expect any online support, most of the techs who worked on this machine have probably retired or gone by now. Good luck  |  IP: Logged Adam Gibson Film Handler Posts: 4 From: leicester, leicestershire, UK Registered: Feb 2010 posted 09-04-2012 09:54 PM                     hi Jonathan thank you very much for your reply and help i will try the people you say and let you know thanks again kind regards adam  |  IP: Logged Bruce McNaughton Film Handler Posts: 27 From: Wandin VIC Australia Registered: Sep 2004 posted 09-14-2012 06:28 PM                        Hi It is quite likely that the automation has nothing to do with the issue of latching the 'run' function. Count down from the top of the terminal strip on the door and with a short piece of wire join terminals 4 and 6 together. This should latch the relay and overcome the issue. Regards Bruce  |  IP: Logged Tom McGarrity Film Handler Posts: 54 From: Biggar, Lanarkshire. Scotland. UK. Registered: Nov 2012 posted 12-06-2012 04:30 AM                     Hi Tom, did you manage to get the LED's working on the FP20, and if so, how? I have the same machine/problem. Thanks. (Wasn't able to PM you)  |  IP: Logged Matthew Taylor Expert Film Handler Posts: 186 From: Essex, UK Registered: Mar 2004 posted 12-06-2012 12:49 PM                     The last two terminals on the larger connector (en+ en-) need to be shorted together to enable the LED PSU. These are normally connected to relay RE4. This relay operates when the douser is opened and shorts the enable wires on the LED psu.  |  IP: Logged Tom McGarrity Film Handler Posts: 54 From: Biggar, Lanarkshire. Scotland. UK. Registered: Nov 2012 posted 12-06-2012 02:06 PM                     Good stuff, I'll give it a go. Thanks.  |  IP: Logged Tom McGarrity Film Handler Posts: 54 From: Biggar, Lanarkshire. Scotland. UK. Registered: Nov 2012 posted 12-07-2012 01:56 PM                     Thanks to Bruce and Matthew, machine now runs and leds work.  |  IP: Logged System Notices Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi Posts: 215 Registered: Apr 2004 posted 08-13-2016 04:47 AM                 It has been 1344 days since the last post.  |  IP: Logged Ian Griggs Film Handler Posts: 30 From: Lithgow, NSW / Australia Registered: Jul 2016 posted 08-13-2016 04:47 AM                     Well here we go again! A few years have passed since the last comment on this post, but I will resurrect it by saying I just had a late 1980s FP20 delivered yesterday, and of course it won't run! I have power and the LED / sound head is alive and I can switch lenses by the WS/SC buttons but nothing else. I have a film in to make sure the film break sensor is off. This machine had no automation (was running a platter), and the controls appear to be very simple. EG ON OFF and that's it. Where should I start? I can put photos up if it will help anyone, or we could do it by email. Many thanks!  |  IP: Logged

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