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Author Topic: CP650 sound "wow" on changeovers running Dolby Digital... Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-07-2011 09:58 AM                     Tony, darling: I'm bored. Please update me. Yours, Manny.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 11-07-2011 12:40 PM                     Manny my little stud muffin: Well, the test on Saturday was........a disaster. To start with, the CAT773 sent to me by Dolby arrived damaged (A capacitor was broken off the board..C82 if Norm is checking this thread.) So I had to get the 773 from our other screening room which luckily was not in use. So I tried all possible combinations of replacing the CAT 773 and CAT 774.....and the problem persists. I double-verified that the reader cables were not crossed by disconnecting #2....and #2's reader was out, so that means the cables are ok. I then looked at a possible grounding issue with the rack/incoming power......we have a good solid ground, with .02 vac measured between ground and neutral. And around .04 vac between the rack and the projector's ground. I am going to pick up another CP-650 later this week and I'm gonna try swapping the entire processor to see what happens. My show on Thursday night are gonna be the guinea pigs to see if the problem goes away. Love and kisses, Tony  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 11-11-2011 01:38 PM                     I am about to rename this thread "As The Reel Turns" as this gets stranger by the day...... Well, I brought in a whole other CP-650, ran the feature with that substitute....and now it does it only sometimes and to a lesser degree. One thing that came to light is that this earlier processor I brought in had the previous version of the software, which I updated before this test. Luckily I have a disc with that previous version (2.3.5.3) so my next step is to "downdate" the original processor to this version from the current 2.3.6.3 to see if THAT solves the problem. (The only thing I don't like is that the older version lacks a few formats I want (Format 76 for example) but I can live with that.) The test processor also had a better power supply so I am also going to get Dolby to send out a new power supply as some of the voltages were out of tolerance with the original processor. So at this point, based on the testing so far, I have a combination of weak power supply and possible software issues based on my observations. Stay tuned for more drama....  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-11-2011 05:22 PM                     Is there a diagnostic port/monitoring tool for the CP650 like on some other processors? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 11-11-2011 10:56 PM                     Carsten: The processor stores any error information in the event log, which shows basic diagnostic info, when a laptop is connected with the CP650 setup software it gives a more detailed description of the error..but.....this problem is not showing up as any kind of error in said logs. I haven't tried using DRAS (Dynamic Reader Alignment Software) to read out what the readers are picking up while running (and I don't think it would work to track an entire feature) but it would not really show any timing/clock rate errors which is what this problem appears to be. But I may try it next Thursday just for giggles to see if it shows something worthwhile.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-03-2011 12:56 PM                     Ok, I haven't had a chance to attack this lately, but having time to think about it leads me to believe the possible cause is software related. All other screening rooms I have dealt with have older software versions installed and readers in the standard locations. As you can see from this picture, I have a very long delay (351 perfs) involved in this situation: I am now thinking that the unusually long delay setting, in concert with the current software, may be the cause of the problem. I'll get a chance later this month to do more testing to find out.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 12-03-2011 02:35 PM                        My Dolby software experience is that if it works, DON'T upgrade it. Early on (CP-500) I didn't know that and I drove a lot of miles putting things back where they were when it "worked last." Louis  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-03-2011 05:07 PM                     Louis, That is my philosophy for all software. If it is stable and the new software does not address problems I'm experiencing or adds features I want, I leave it alone. The CP500 did indeed inflict problems after software version 1.31 that were not rectified until the final software of 1.65. I had some CP500s run on 1.2 from the beginning of their lives until their end (DCinema did them in). The only problems those CP500s ever had was the occasional Power Supply failure (I think two out of 16 in about a dozen years). For Kinoton, I normally always recommend the factory RSSD (basement) reader...it will improve analog as well as digital. With even PK60s and FP50s now coming out of service, you might be able to scarf up a suitable RSSD soundhead for your FP30D's for little to no money. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-03-2011 05:45 PM                     Steve I would be glad to change the readers out, but: 1: The University will NOT spend any more money on that room, especially with the main film program that I used to run getting the budget ax. ALL of the upgrades (CP650, Digital, Analog red readers, etc.) done as mentioned in my pics in the warehouse were paid for/donated by me. 2: If I recall, those damned lens turrets get in the way of using the RSSD readers. Now, if you happen across a pair and wish to donate them to the University they will gladly accept them. (I will pay for shipping.) Louis/Steve: I agree 100% on the software upgrade issues. This processor was new and already had the "6" series software in it. Luckily I have the previous versions that I can try.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-03-2011 06:32 PM                     The RSSD can be retroed into any FP20 or FP30...turret or single lens. Another thing you can probably do is switch it to single lens. Again, much of this stuff is a matter of saving it from the dumpster. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-03-2011 10:12 PM                     Steve, I have wanted since 1997 to convert those machines to single lens mounts. Again, if you come across single lens mounts, the readers and lens holders please PM me so we can make arrangements for me to get that stuff from you. (Or anyone else on the forum who has access to same, let me know!!) Kinotons weren't used much by the chains out here dumping equipment.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 05-21-2012 01:03 PM                     Bumping this up for a couple of reasons: 1: Scott Norwood just posted a thread asking about CP650 software versions; 2: I haven't had ANY time to get back in and try my software downgrade; And also to prod Steve Guttag into seeing if he has any single-lens holder assemblies I can get for those pesky Kinotons. In other news: On the half-speed hangup I mentioned with the #2 machine I found the issue to be with the relays (the ones soldered to the speed selection board) but due to the ridiculous cost of replacements I have jumpered the card out to run 24 frames always.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-23-2012 03:45 PM                     Tony, I've been able to force my SRD playback to "wow" by operating in variable speed mode and varying the speed a little. It makes me wonder.... Are you 100% sure that your projectors are rock-steady at 24fps? One of my (Kinoton) projectors has needed the variable pots to be changed-out twice now (less than 2 years old) and I've noticed that the 25fps "wobbles" like crazy for about 12 seconds before stabilizing -- so it doesn't stabilize until a few seconds after changeover. You could be having a similar issue on takeoff at 24fps. Do your machines have a 3-digit FPS LED display? Just a thought. Stay warm. Yours, M. P.S. - Could it possibly be that you've bypassed 2 of your constant feed sprockets?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-23-2012 04:30 PM                     No single-lens holders here...sorry.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 05-23-2012 08:19 PM                     Manny: Yep I am positive the speed is steady, I have a rate display tied to the encoders for the dubber set to resolve to 1/10 of a frame in speed and they are steady. And this is not a simple "wow" (as I said in an earlier post it was the only term I could think of at the time), it is a gross drop in speed of the playing audio on the outgoing projector that ramps up in sync with the incoming projector's motor. As for the constant speed sprockets, if you look at the full size pics in the warehouse you'll see that there is no way to get the film through them ahead of the reader. The film payout off the reels is smooth and no more unsteady that other rooms I run with penthouses that do not have this issue. Steve: Keep looking, I'll take them whenever you run across a set.  |  IP: Logged

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