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Topic: More Death of Film Re Hash

Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-22-2011 11:36 PM

quote: Edward Havens
CDs are disappearing, yet LPs have made a quiet comeback

CDs aren't disappearing just yet. The vast majority of full albums sold are still sold on CDs. In 2010, about 83 million albums were sold as downloads, vs. over 225 million sold on CDs.

The other news in downloads, of course, is in single songs. About 1.2 billion of them were sold in 2010. But even with that, sales of physical media, dollar-wise are still almost 1.5x what downloads are.

The scale will keep tipping more toward downloads as time goes on and more and more people get broadband internet, but the CD isn't exactly "dead" yet as many otherwise-intelligent people would have you believe.

LP sales are growing but they still are a niche market. About 4 million LPs were sold last year.

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 11-23-2011 08:31 AM

Much like other products and legacy items, the re-sale of LP recordings is not being listed. I think of these old LP recordings as most people regard 35mm film classics. Not all of them are worthy of collecting (or re-playing) but there are a large number that have musical worth and are salable.

Once these recordings are transferred to digital, the vinyls are still very worthy of preservation. Once you have a photo printed from your negative, do you really discard the negative?

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 11-25-2011 03:07 AM

quote: Edward Havens
CDs are disappearing, yet LPs have made a quiet comeback thank to demanding audiophiles and artists.

Maybe niche 35mm is sustainable.

That problem with that comparison is the complexity of making film emulsion and processing it.

The raw material for LPs - polyvinyl carbonate - is also used to manufacture a lot of other things: everything from supermarket carrier bags to kinky costumes, in fact! There are enough cutting lathes and heads surviving from when LPs were mainstream to keep the boutique labels in business, though how long this will remain the case as parts wear out remains to be seen. While disc mastering is a craft skill, it can be learnt relatively quickly by someone who knows the basics of audio recording and mixing.

The raw materials and manufacturing processes involved with film stock, and especially colour stock, are a different kettle of fish. You need a bigger scale of infrastructure, and the combination of chemistries involved isn't used in any other industrial process, meaning that the economies of scale have to work for film alone. Furthermore, the lab craft skills needed to make and handle film require a lot more training and experience than an existing audio professional would need to learn how to cut a record.

The bottom line: once mainstream 35mm release printing has finished, I can't see it being cost effective for Kodak and/or Fuji (AFAIK the only remaining manufacturers of colour film emulsion) to keep making the stock and the chemistry needed to process it, just for a few dozen arthouse prints a year.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-25-2011 10:18 AM

I noticed that Ferrani seems to be back in the film stock business for consumer use

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Edward Jurich
Master Film Handler

Posts: 305
From: Las Vegas USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 11-26-2011 10:52 PM

Consider how obsolete reel to reel tape is but yet it is still being manufactured, in Europe I believe, because of the sonic quality of analog recording. You might be surprised, or not, to hear vacuum tubes are in demand for audio use.
I have seen some 35mm presentations in the past year that looked dull and some scenes with color shift. I don't think it's the release print, I think it's the original shot in the video-cam. It's hard to make a case for the wonderful look of film when the original source making the print is bad. It would be nice to have some worth while projects shot 35MM from camera to release print. Fifteen years from now you might see theater Marquee's boosting "Presented on Film" wowing a new generation....hey, get those things out of storage! [Big Grin]

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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 11-27-2011 06:34 AM

quote:
I feel very strongly about this issue and cannot stand idly by and let digital projection destroy the art that I live for. As one voice I cannot change the future, but hopefully if enough film lovers speak up, we can prove to the studios that repertory cinema is important and that we want 35mm to remain available to screen.

I think there are two issues here. The continuation of film projection for current titles and the repertoire cinema market.

I fully agree with the statement by Julia Marchese when it applies to existing prints of classic titles that are available but are too costly to store and distribute and therefore will not be made available anymore. It is a shame that those prints won’t be seen anymore and instead we will have (not me) to watch a DVD or a Blu-ray instead on the big screen.

The myth that people do not care if films are projected on DVD or Blu-ray is not quite true. There is a repertoire event in Spain once per month that brings an average of 1,800 people for one screening of a double-bill. The organisers take pride in never showing DVDs or Blu-rays. 2K DCPs are usually well received but whereas no one ever moans about a 35mm print some members of the audience do not like 2K DCP and prefer the original experience for those classic titles.

I think there is an argument to be made as well for new digital restorations to be printed on 35mm.

Next month I am going to see an old Maria Montez’s film I would never bother to watch, why? Because it is an original dye transfer nitrate print.

Film encompasses many things, acting, directing, music, photography, … and the way that amalgam of artistic expression reaches us should not be underestimated.

I do not think there is even a point in discussing which experience is better but no one will deny they are different. What it is undeniable is that many patrons like myself prefer to see the classic titles in classic cinemas and on film prints. I get little or no pleasure from seeing a 2K DCP of a classic film on a multiplex.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 11-27-2011 08:28 AM

quote: Edward Jurich
Consider how obsolete reel to reel tape is but yet it is still being manufactured, in Europe I believe, because of the sonic quality of analog recording. You might be surprised, or not, to hear vacuum tubes are in demand for audio use.

Magnetic tape is still in mainstream production for digital video and data applications, and it only requires a minor modification to production line plant to cut the stuff into pancakes of studio analogue audiotape width and spool them. Likewise, vacuum tubes (thermionic valves) are still made in large quantities for use in lab calibration equipment and MRI scanners in hospitals. They never went out of production - they just stopped being used in consumer audio gear. Therefore, the economies of scale still just about enable a small number of rich hifi buffs to continue using them. As far as I know, there is no other use for release print photographic film emulsion apart from coating on 35mm release print stock.

quote: Ramon Lamarca Marques
I think there is an argument to be made as well for new digital restorations to be printed on 35mm.

There might be a cultural argument, but if no-one is making film anymore the practical barriers will make it irrelevant.

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