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Author Topic: Orc 1000 problem Sean Weitzel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall) Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-09-2012 02:26 PM                     The spark gap in my 1000 was bad as well, the leads shorted through the epoxy base creating a carbon bridge. This spark gap is NLA so the Kinoton unit is really the only replacement.  |  IP: Logged Bill Duelly Film Handler Posts: 92 From: Roselle Park, NJ Registered: Feb 2006 posted 07-10-2012 11:25 AM                     I called Strong - Ballantyne. Evidently Dale is no longer there but John Luhrs was very helpful. Some items of note: The replacement spark gap unit should be at about 1/16" for the 750 or 1K bulbs (.0625" for the width testers) Making a wider gap will cause a more powerful surge in the ignition as it has to get to a higher voltage before it will jump (when testing this AM, my gap was a hair wider and when I turned it on, it made some very powerful sounding attempts). He also noted that the 106 volts were totally NG. He suggested getting a "buck/boost' transformer to bring the voltage up. So now that the heat spell broke and power to house was back at 117v, and the gap width reset, the lamp did light this AM. I'll continue to monitor it over the next few days and I will replace the diode when it comes in, after all, it would be significantly newer than whats already there. I'll also look to see what can be done power wise.  |  IP: Logged Robert Throop Master Film Handler Posts: 412 From: Vernon, NY USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-10-2012 07:03 PM                     I once used a spark gap from an Irem igniter in an ORC 1600 lamphouse. If memory serves I used a standard fuse holder to plug the sg into.  |  IP: Logged Pete Lawrence Expert Film Handler Posts: 192 From: Middleburg, PA Registered: Aug 1999 posted 07-11-2012 11:10 AM                     Well, so much for diagnosing problems over the internet. Your blocking diode is probably OK. At least for now. Your 106 Volts is indeed low. While there is no "law" as such, the accepted standard is (copied from Wikipedia): "In the United States[3] and Canada,[4] national standards specify that the nominal voltage at the source should be 120 V and allow a range of 114 to 126 V (RMS) (−5% to +5%)." (Ref 3 is ANSI C84.1, Ref 4 is CSA C3-235) And like most things, it's really somewhat more complicated than that one sentence. Line voltage at my house is typically 120 to 130 Volts. And that's with a voltage regulating transformer in the circuit about a mile down the road. There has been a long running feud here between the power company and a big wood working company (that makes kitchen cabinets) as to who is going to pay for the service upgrade. We residential customers are just along for the ride as our power feeds off the same supply lines. If your handy making things, you should be able to build a usable adjustable spark gap from a piece of plastic and two 4-40 screws. Just grind or file the ends of the screws to a point. Add a couple nuts to lock the gap width in place. Try to keep the overall lead length about the same as the original. Your igniter is really a spark gap RF transmitter, and lead inductance (lengths) can affect its operation.  |  IP: Logged Bill Duelly Film Handler Posts: 92 From: Roselle Park, NJ Registered: Feb 2006 posted 07-16-2012 07:10 AM                     To continue with updates: It appears that spark gap is proper now and all is screwed down tight on the ignitor board (the connections might not have been real tight before around the spark gap. Striking wise it seems immaterial whether it is 107-114 (which is within the range that the manual says will work) with the following exceptions: a 750 W bulb will light within 30 seconds and a 1000w bulb will be 1-2 minutes to strike. Which is better than before when the darn thing wouldn't strike. In a condition such as mentioned above, the manual states that the capacitors should be 'reformed'. I have not done this yet, but I suspect age is an issue with them. Would the ones that are being 'reformed' be those big blue power ones visible when first opened and the smaller ones just under the reflector by the center bulkhead? As always, many thanks to all for their input!  |  IP: Logged Pete Lawrence Expert Film Handler Posts: 192 From: Middleburg, PA Registered: Aug 1999 posted 07-17-2012 08:03 PM                     Bill, It would be helpful if you would describe what you see and hear happening between when you flip the main switch and when the lamp lights. What's going on in that 30 seconds to two minutes is very telling. As to "reforming" the capacitors... The M1000 book says pull the ignitor relay, turn the main switch on and wait for 5 minutes or so. What that does is apply full voltage to both the main supply filter caps (the blue cans behind the center bulkhead) and the boost supply caps (the ones in front of the bulkhead below the reflector). That presumes both sets of capacitors are in reasonably good condition and not to leaky. If you have a lamp house with capacitors from the 1970's, I would be a little more gentle with them. Applying full voltage, with no current limiting, to a big capacitor with high leakage current (from sitting for years) can make a loud noise and a big mess when it explodes. A safer way is to apply a controlled voltage (from an external power supply) to the capacitor you want to reform through a current limiting resistor. Any value around 10K will work. Disconnect one side of the cap you want to reform from whatever it's connected to. Connect the external supply through the limiting resistor to the capacitor. Make sure the polarity is right! Start with the external supply at a low voltage and measure the voltage across this 10K limiting resistor. There will be some voltage across the resistor as current flows while the capacitor charges up, but it should go to near zero after a few seconds to a minute. Once the voltage across the resistor drops near zero you can raise the supply voltage a little more. There should be a voltage across the resistor again, until the capacitor finishes charging up to the new voltage. Continue this process until the applied voltage reaches the capacitors working voltage limit. Then just let it sit for a while with full voltage applied. What you have done is reform the oxide dielectric in the capacitor slowly and limited the charging current in the process. Make sure you discharge the capacitor before you reconnect it to the circuit. Having said all that, if you have been using the lamp house until recently the capacitors are probably in fairly good shape. The book method of reforming is what happens when the lamp doesn't light. Full voltage is applied to both sets of capacitors until the lamp lights. Google "reforming electrolytic capacitors" for more info. The tube guys have been doing this for many years.  |  IP: Logged Pete Lawrence Expert Film Handler Posts: 192 From: Middleburg, PA Registered: Aug 1999 posted 07-18-2012 06:26 AM                     Added to the above (because edit time limit has expired): If the capacitors survived the reforming process it means the leakage current is under control. It doesn't mean they are at full rated capacitance. If they have dried out over the years the capacitance value is likely to be much lower than what it should be.  |  IP: Logged Bill Duelly Film Handler Posts: 92 From: Roselle Park, NJ Registered: Feb 2006 posted 07-20-2012 04:08 PM                     So heres whats been happening , or not happening: I have replaced the upper blocking diode and the 2 big capaciters up top. I then put the 1k bulb inthat i had been using that, that had NOT been able to work recently (I was using a 750 bulb with mixed results for the past few days) I reformed the caps and the bulb came in like 2 seconds. A few minutes later it was 4 seconds or so. This am it was about 15 seconds a few hours later about 1.5 minutes and just recently it was 3 minutes. At all times the voltage was about 117-119. So what is happening is that the start time keeps getting longer. So is something leaking or draining? There is no other noise happening until the bulb strikes and there is the brief zap. Any hints would be appreciated.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 07-20-2012 04:30 PM                     Yeah it is time to dumpster that piece of crap and get a real lamphouse and rectifer. Jim Henk has a clean 1k setup for sale in the Equipment forum that will give you more light and work a lot better. If you really are in love with that thing, then replace ALL of the caps including the ones on the control and scr boards. With the tight packing of the electronics, the heat it generates and the age of it, you have a high probability that a lot of the caps are dried out and nowhere near spec.  |  IP: Logged Bill Duelly Film Handler Posts: 92 From: Roselle Park, NJ Registered: Feb 2006 posted 07-23-2012 07:43 AM                     Yes Tony, i do love that unit. It reminds me of one of the houses I worked at from the 80's into the 90's, where I do have the sound head and ped from. For laughs i did swap out the boards with another unit that was working so so. That certainly effected the operation of the unit, making it better but by no means perfect. Those were old boards as well. So off to the electronics store to buy some capacitors! Warm up that soldering iron....  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 07-23-2012 12:28 PM                     I had a customer who had them for dailies rental in which we gutted the power supply from the lamphouse and placed them in a separate box...  |  IP: Logged Bill Duelly Film Handler Posts: 92 From: Roselle Park, NJ Registered: Feb 2006 posted 07-26-2012 09:27 AM                     Just to keep updated... I replaced a bunch of caps but still intermittant issues, even trying different boards and bulbs. Went through ALL the test points and everything was metering ok. Which left one thing...spark gap. Moved it closer than strongs' 1/16th recommendation and viola! It worked. Then went back to double check bulbs and found that I had to readjust the gap a different way for each of the 3 bulbs )1 x 750 and 2x1000), all used to various degrees. So the secret could be that the 'replacement gap', with the 2 adjustable screw posts, needs to be tweeked first for what ever bulb is put in.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 07-26-2012 12:59 PM                     Richard, did something similar a number of times. Gut the electronics out of the baby Orcon, and hook it up to an external rectifier. It works really well, as the optics of the Orcon are not at all bad if in good condition, the weak point was always the electronics. If you go down this path, you MUST preserve a; the operation of the fans, b; the air paths. I had a hell of a time with a pair of lamphouses 'converted' by another company in the UK. They had ripped out all the air tubes and the cinema found that lamps were lasting just a few hundred hours.  |  IP: Logged

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