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Topic: Studios / Kodak Strike Deal to Keep Film Alive

Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 08-01-2014 09:11 PM

Actually the atmospheric conditions of an underground Salt Mine would be more ideal for storing Nitrate Based Film. One of the reasons that Companies(not film related) store things that are subject to rapid oxidation/decomposition;is there isn't any.Unless there is visible evidence of decomposition, Storing Nitrate Prints would be less Hazardous here underground than even Specialized above ground Vaults...Apparently MGM,DISNEY and a Few others thought so...

http://www.koaa.com/news/a-salt-mine-is-home-to-movie-memorabilia/

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Richard P. May
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 08-02-2014 09:59 AM

Steve - Not to get into a controversy, but the article which you attached does not mention nitrate film. It is true that the safety protection copies are there, so the titles mentioned are correct.
Theoretically, the cool, dry, stable atmosphere is ideal for either type material, but I repeat: the fumes from burning nitrate are deadly. 60 stories underground is not a place to store it.
I worked with the MGM library for years, and never did we send any nitrate to Kansas.
No argument, just clarification.

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Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 08-02-2014 12:41 PM

Hey everybody! A fight is starting!

I want front row seats! Wow, who's bringing popcorn? Isn't life good? [Big Grin]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-02-2014 02:23 PM

Any and all nitrate stored in the National Film Archives is stored at I believe 34 deg. f. The sizes of the vaults are very limited and each vault is explosion proof and vented to the outside.

Mark

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 08-02-2014 04:50 PM

No Fight Here; I concede that you know what your talking about;you have impressive Credentials on Film Preservation.
Are these Film Studios using the Salt mine as just another Safety
backup along with their original Studio Vaults. I know MGM Probably looks at it this way since losing a lot of Films in the Fire they had years back. These Underground Vaults are huge and with over 940 Acres as of 2009;that is well over a Square Mile(640 acres)should have plenty of ventilation if a fire started...

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Richard P. May
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 08-03-2014 11:33 AM

Steve: I can't make any general statement about what studios do, only for collections where I have personal knowledge.
I can say, in general, storage in "salt mines" is far, far less expensive than in studio property. It was always accessible within a couple of days.
Regardless of ventilation and square footage, I certainly wouldn't want to be near anything throwing off nitric acid fumes.
Thanks for bringing up this conversation. I think we've covered it pretty well.

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 08-04-2014 11:02 PM

Richard; You worked for MGM so you might know This. Are the Original 3 Strip Technicolor Camera Negatives,Master Positives,etc. still around for "Gone with the Wind" & "Wizard of 0z" They would be right at 76 yrs old now. People should read the Book "The Making of Wizard of Oz" and they will appreciate these 2 films even more when they see how complicated and expensive it was to make a IB TECHNICOLOR Movie back in 1938. The intense Krieg Lights that were needed back then for Technicolor caused a number of Actors to have future Vision Problems...

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Christopher Woollard
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Dovercourt, Harwich, England
Registered: May 2004

posted 08-05-2014 10:47 AM

I teach a Masters degree in Cinematography and of course have always been using 35mm and 16mm film in addition to the usual Alexa & RED digital cameras. Up to last year we could get Fuji stock at about £60 per 1000ft roll of 35mm negative. Now Kodak are charging us some £230 for the same amount - and charging an extra £40 per order if we order less than £400 worth. At this rate we simply will no longer be able to use more than a token amount. A great shame as my guild, the BSC, very much supports the learning experience and working discipline of using film for origination. Here in London we screen outstanding student films to the industry - many deeply regret the demise of film simply because they cannot afford to use it now. Our Moviecam camera will also outlast any digital camera several times over. Of course the top film makers are concerned with shooting on film, not at all exhibition, but Kodak needs to support the 'little folks' in the industry as was once common. If they price us out, no next generation will know how to use negative let alone appreciate its capabilities over the (excellent) digital alternative. I still have full 16/35mm projection facilities but again we cannot afford to use them.

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Terry Monohan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 379
From: San Francisco CA USA
Registered: May 2014

posted 08-05-2014 01:37 PM

And to think so many theatres tossed out their 35mm/70mm film projectors and spent all their candy counter money on expensive digital, now they may have to put back in 35mm for special events and some films. I always new film would not die off completely. The movie circuits and film companies that tried to kill film off and put in video projectors to save postage and booth projectionists must be very upset that film is not dead.

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 08-05-2014 03:32 PM

Yes I was shocked at how many stories I've heard of theaters literally throwing their 35mm Equipment in the Garbage or hauling it to the Dump.Close to home here Our only Outdoor Drive-in that has been using Digital over a year now threw his
2 CENTURY H Projectors and related Booth Equipment in the Garbage
rather than try to store them somewhere or make an attempt to Sell the Equipment somewhere else. If I had been there when they were installing his Digital Projectors I could of had all this for free... [Confused]

Just my Luck!
[Roll Eyes]

I guess a lot of theater owners have conceded that film is gone and they don't want the hastle of having to Store something or try and sell what they believe is ancient history. I sure hope before I leave this Earth one day that Film hasn't completely died...

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-05-2014 06:05 PM

Well it IS ancient history as far as the majority of the exhibition community is concerned. We went to considerable expense to keep our film system in place when we switched over, but in four years after the change, we had used the film equipment exactly zero times. And that's even with me having a big collection of "old film" that I swore I'd want to run once in a while.

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Richard P. May
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 08-05-2014 06:35 PM

Steve - yes, the 3-strip negatives on GWTW and W of Oz still exist. These pictures, along with all of the pre-1986 MGM films are now owned by Warner Bros. They have used these elements for new film copies for protection, and new video elements now available in the BluRay market. I'm not giving anything away here, as they have made this well known in their publicity.

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 08-05-2014 10:17 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
Well it IS ancient history as far as the majority of the exhibition community is concerned. We went to considerable expense to keep our film system in place when we switched over, but in four years after the change, we had used the film equipment exactly zero times. And that's even with me having a big collection of "old film" that I swore I'd want to run once in a while.

Yes Mike; but are you prepared to just Chuck your Equipment in the Garbage or Dump? I Don't Think So! [Wink]

BTW: Richard P. May-Thanks for the Info; Glad to see that those
Negs have been properly Taken Care Of... [thumbsup]

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-05-2014 11:54 PM

quote:
are you prepared to just Chuck your Equipment in the Garbage or Dump? I Don't Think So!

Welll....it IS taking up a lot of space backstage and it IS completely worthless to me at this point, so...

The only reason we're even keeping it around is in case we ever hear of somebody needing something for parts. I can't imagine any of it ever being used to show movies here again, since if our digital gear ever breaks down we probably wouldn't be able to get prints anyway, plus it would be a monumentally expensive task to get the film stuff reinstalled. So it's not gonna happen.

Simplex 5-Star soundhead and projector head, Christie CC20 lamphouse/console, and Christie AW3 (the kind with permanently-mounted brains), in case anyone's wondering.

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 08-09-2014 10:26 PM

quote:
Probably right. But remember the cautionary tale about assuming in the field of media - namely vinyl albums. They also said there was no way in hell that vinyl albums would *ever* return. Now the NY Times is reporting that:

In spite of the hype, it's still less than 2% of the music market (which itself is less than half of its 1999 peak and even less if you consider inflation) and for catalog material, the labels are not releasing the LPs themselves, they're licensing it to labels like Sundazed because the market is too small for them to care much about.

Having said that, I always did think that theaters should have kept a few film projectors on one screen in the multiplex "just in case" if the alternative was sending them to the dump. And I think all universities with film departments and museums should keep their film projectors.

Even though NYU has a big film school, I was at their theatre on 8th street for the first time in decades and as far as I can tell, it's been chopped up into tiny auditoriums and none of the auditoriums are equipped for film anymore. (I'm not sure they're equipped for DCPs either). When I was there in the 1970s, they projected gorgeous 16mm prints with Xenon projectors onto a very large screen that looked as good, if not better, than typical 35mm projection. I suspect they're now teaching film history using DVDs.

Except for special events, I do think the age of projecting film is over and thinking anything else is a bit of a fantasy. The best we can hope for is directors who continue to use film for origination. As I've posted before, my last two film experiences were not good: "The Master" in 70mm at the Ziegfeld had dirt end to end and seeing "Her" at a local Queens theatre that still only projects film was dim, scratched and much to my surprise, the noise from the projection booth really annoyed me.

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