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Author Topic: film handling workshop, Austin
Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 08-28-2014 09:11 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This situation will not improve. While I do encourage the attempt to improve, I am not hopeful.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 08-28-2014 09:33 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
Leo, do you recall some of my horror stories about a couple of places that claim (and truly believe) they have super-projectionists missing a roller and scratching? I think that's what has happened here.
Yes, and no human being is perfect and almost every projectionist will have accidentally scratched a film at some point in their career - I know that I have. But someone who mistreads and refuses to take on board that they've made an error really isn't someone you want handling the dwindling number of film prints now in circulation, which is why your second anecdote is so scary. My earlier point was that anyone being let loose on these films now has to be of the mindset that one scratching incident is one too many and that they're going to do everything possible to identify what went wrong and prevent another. I'm also worried about the fact that that on the AMIA emailing announcing this class, they say that they're going to give people a certificate for attending, but not that there is going to be any test or exam before they hand out a bit of paper suggesting that people are qualified to project rare and irreplaceable prints. So basically, people are going to be given these certificates just for showing up! I hope these certificates aren't going to be used to lull archives and distributors into a false sense of security that their prints will be in safe hands.

I've never used a JJ, and was scratching my head (excuse the pun!) to work out how that damage could have been done on the two machines I have substantial experience running 70mm (the DP70/Norelco AA and the Cinemeccanica Vic 8). Your explanation makes complete sense, especially if an unconventionally mounted penthouse reader was in the path and the film went the wrong way through or around it.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-28-2014 11:49 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Leo Enticknap
I hope these certificates aren't going to be used to lull archives and distributors into a false sense of security that their prints will be in safe hands.
They will. And there will also be a false sense of "I know what I'm doing" by the attendees just because they attended.

At this stage of the game, my honest opinion is that any training seminar shouldn't even be considered as a one-day course. It should be a solid week long and should include MANY specifics on more than just how to inspect, wind and thread the film. Also when I see training seminars working with or suggesting the use of less-than-ideal equipment, that also discredits the class.

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Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 894
From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted 08-28-2014 12:47 PM      Profile for Buck Wilson   Email Buck Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, I feel like you need to go just to see what it's all about... For science.

Or for that matter, just to tell them that they've got it all wrong.

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David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 08-28-2014 03:53 PM      Profile for David Buckley   Author's Homepage   Email David Buckley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Brad, I feel like you need to go just to see what it's all about... just to tell them that they've got it all wrong.
They should sell tickets for that, its likely to be very entertaining!

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-09-2014 02:01 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Herewith another anecdotal which supports the widely expressed belief on this thread that if the organizers of this event believe that a one-day training course will turn your average multiplex projectionist into a proficient exhibitor of archival prints, they are seriously mistaken.

I screened a print from a major FIAF archive a while back, and received an email from that archive today saying that they'd examined it on return and found nicks in the leading edge of the perforations in reels 1 and 3 of a three-reel print. The pattern of damage suggests that one of our two DP70s probably did it: I suspect a worn or hooked sprocket tooth on the lower sprocket, and will be checking with a magnifying glass tomorrow, and running a loop of virgin spacing.

The significant thing is that these nicks are truly minute: I had to magnify the picture they sent me up to around 3x to see what they were talking about, which was the tiniest of strains in one corner of the leading edge of the perfs on one side. Of course this shouldn't have happened and I'll be looking for the fault thoroughly, but my point is that archives are now complaining to theaters about what would have been considered routine wear and tear on prints only a few years ago. All they'd look for on returned prints is scratching, if the heads and tails had been cut and really egregious edge and perf damage (as in, edges crushed from poor rewinding over several feet or more, sprocket punch marks in the film, that sort of stuff).

The two of us who worked that weekend probably have around 70 years of projection experience between us, and yet we didn't catch this damage taking place (and unless we'd been winding the reels through very slowly with a high powered magnifier on the rewind, there's no way that we or anyone could have - no way could nicks that small have been seen by shining a flashlight on the film as it wound onto the take-up reel, which I always do after each changeover).

I'm guessing that the policymakers in these archives have been reading the stuff all over the Internet about how the end of film is imminent, blah blah blah, and have decided that from now on, they will expect the same sort of film handling in the booths that show their prints that goes on in the labs that clean, repair and print their camera negatives. And into this environment they're going to send people who have only ever threaded up platters in a multiplex or run portable classroom 16mm machines after a one-day course, and expect them to handle prints to the archives' satisfaction?!

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-10-2014 02:13 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I predict they will arrive at the conclusion that access copies will have to be DCP's.

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 09-10-2014 03:03 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even if the prints never move, they won't last forever. Will they?

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Jarod Reddig
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 513
From: Hays, Ks
Registered: Jun 2011


 - posted 09-10-2014 03:22 PM      Profile for Jarod Reddig   Email Jarod Reddig   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I applaud the efforts but as said its just too little too late. These types of siminars should have been common practice years ago but the industry doomed us to our current situation. Film is going the way of the Dodo. So sad.

It seems the bigget issue with film is the film itslef. Its just too darn delicate. With everything right of course a print can go un-blemished for years and years but it just takes that one mess up (like Leo's example) and that in and of itself is a shame.

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Fiona Nancy Dulake
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Leigh on sea, Essex, England
Registered: Sep 2014


 - posted 10-08-2014 07:13 AM      Profile for Fiona Nancy Dulake   Email Fiona Nancy Dulake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi there. Just read all your comments and thought that interesting points were made. Film is indeed dying out, but there is a small percentage of people in the world determined to keep it alive. The one day training course in film handling I can appreciate from your opinion is not enough. It takes years to become a skilled projectionist. But what other training opportunities are available out there right now for people wanting to seriously learn for the first time? The younger generation who have a passion for film and cinema are at a disadvantage as the chance of gaining the same level of experience that retired projectionists have had in their life are no longer there.
Do they just give up though? I myself would like to become experienced working with 70mm projectors. But I live in a seaside town in the south of England. Ain't no training available there. Nowhere in England that I have found. I would be prepared to travel abroad though and spend more than just one day learning. Unfortunately that opportunity isn't available, so if a one day course is all there is right now, then some one like me is gonna wanna go for that.

If you know of any places that offer 70mm film handling training, please reply. But again, I do appreciate it can't be learnt over night but I gotta start somewhere. Thanks Fi

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 10-08-2014 06:50 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's a difficult one, and I think that places which are serious about keeping film projection alive are going to have to look carefully at how other heritage technology operations maintain their skills base, and see how we can learn lessons from them. There are organizations out there flying DC-3s and running steam locomotives (for example), and the people doing that are now at least one generation further on from the last generation to have worked with these technologies in mainstream commercial use. I'd guess that a lot of it is volunteering, and that many of them are the sons and daughters of others to have done it.

At 42, I'd guess that I'm the youngest of the projectionists in my workplace (possibly the second youngest), and certainly in the last generation to have worked with 70mm when it was commercial and mainstream. Anyone learning any sort of film projection "cold" from here on in is probably going to be doing it as a hobby rather than a career.

Many of the museums, cinematheques and arts center type venues that claim to be making a commitment to keeping film projection alive are probably going to want to think about expanding their volunteer/intern programs into the booth (traditionally somewhere only paid staff went, even if volunteers and/or interns worked in other areas of the operation). The basics can only be learnt by lots of practice, trial and error. Learning basic film handling, projector operation and maintenance is like learning to play the piano: there is no shortcut, however much of an aptitude you have for it, and furthermore, the number of paid jobs doing it in the future is going to be so tiny that no-one is going to be motivated to learn as a marketable skill.

That is why I really don't think this Austin workshop is taking the right approach: you can't get confident with the basics in a day. Where one-off, short training events might be more useful is for the more advanced stuff. A higher level maintenance job, e.g. swapping out an intermittent mechanism or doing an A-chain alignment, is something that a focused course might give someone the bedrock of knowledge for which they can then use to practice and firm in once back at their home venue.

So if you're really interested in learning film projection, I'd find a like-minded organization and volunteer as a first step. Projected Picture Trust? Leigh-on-Sea to Bletchley Park is a bit of a drive, but not out of the question, I'd have thought.

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Jonathan Wood
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 206
From: Oxfordshire, United kingdom
Registered: Jan 2008


 - posted 10-09-2014 05:16 AM      Profile for Jonathan Wood   Email Jonathan Wood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Fiona

Are you a member of the Projected Picture Trust?
http://www.ppttrust.org
Might be worth joining as although they don't offer official training , they do have 70mm equipment that , once you get involved , you would be able to gain experience with.

Jon

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Fiona Nancy Dulake
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Leigh on sea, Essex, England
Registered: Sep 2014


 - posted 10-09-2014 10:22 AM      Profile for Fiona Nancy Dulake   Email Fiona Nancy Dulake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for your response Leo and Jon. Leo, luckily there is a small film society here in Southend that uses 35mm projectors for many of their screenings. I could always volunteer with them to get experience. Also my stepson's school teacher used to own a cinema and has worked with 70mm projectors in the past so he too could be of help. Last month I rather spontaneously bought a 70mm projector. The above comments talk about how projectors are falling into the hands these days of just anybody, and yes, I too now have got one but I'm prepared to learn everything about it to use it safely and correctly. Though if I was to ever rent 70mm films from a distributor (though I'm aware one must have a trusting relationship with a distributor in order to rent films), I would call upon someone with more experience to handle the film. There is an old cinema here in Southend for sale, waiting for a group of people to revive it. This is something myself, my husband and my stepson often talk/dream about. If we approach our local council for financial support, who knows, perhaps they may buy it and Southend will have a fully functioning revivalist cinema/alternative theatre one day....Jon, will check out the ppttrust website. Cheers

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Jason Metcalfe
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 134
From: Austin, TX, U.S.
Registered: May 2010


 - posted 10-09-2014 07:54 PM      Profile for Jason Metcalfe   Email Jason Metcalfe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not sure where the misinformation began but the AMIA workshop is definitely not supposed to take someone from 0->100 in a day, I see it more as a way for projectionists who have only ever been trained on the job, like many of us in this thread were, to establish a real bearing on their current set of capabilities. This is especially important for those that don't have the resources to make it to conferences like AMIA or take a class at NYU yet want to increase their skill level.

I was trained for a few months on threading and platters and the basic operation of a CP650 and left to my own devices, everything else I learned from a manual, gleaned from another more experienced person or these forums, like many of you I'm sure. If there were classes available or workshops I would have taken them but there weren't and that can be a frustrating paradigm to work in.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I don't understand the backlash against this at all, it's going to help a few people have better film handling skills, it's increasing the awareness that this is an important job that should be preserved, and it will hopefully help increase the number of these events that happen in the future. /rant

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Kirk Futrell
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Nashville, TN / U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2008


 - posted 10-24-2014 03:22 PM      Profile for Kirk Futrell   Author's Homepage   Email Kirk Futrell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I don't understand the backlash against this at all,
You must be new to the Film-Tech Forums. Backlash is the main reason I waited 8 years before my first post. But hey, we come here for the opinions right? And boy do we got 'em.

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