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Author Topic: Dolby CP500 Password Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 06-27-2015 10:30 PM                       Nope. It was the least useful part of the perf due to fine scratches so the logo was a place holder for future low data ideas. One of the first experimental sound negatives was lost at the lab and then sent to CDS by mistake. The image on the film was that of one of the project engineers. If only he'd had his middle finger up. After some time the negative was returned. There were corner markers and the camera just had to find 3 and from that the location and size of the image could be determined.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-28-2015 10:58 AM                     Let me see if I can recall the Dolby Digital update thing a bit. As I recall, it was a low-bit rate item that was in the data portion of the track. Throughout the movie the DA10/DA20/CP500 would receive the update code and cache it. Once it had a complete code, the next reboot would complete the update. Since the update would have to be verified complete in the cache, one would not get a bad update due to a poor read from the print. The DA10 could withstand one such update...the next time an update came through, it would crash. I want to say after one or perhaps "the" update, error numbers immediately were lower. I'm guessing the update improved the decoders ability to determine the bits better despite difficulties in the reader. This is enough in the way-back department that I can't be certain but that is how I remember the feature.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 06-28-2015 11:10 AM                     so the DA10 would only do one upgrade? And what would happen next?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-28-2015 12:18 PM                     As I recall, it would crash the DA10. Sam may recall better but I think that may have been one of the primary reasons for recalling the DA10s and replacing them with DA20s to ensure that the DA10 would not receive the second update.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 06-28-2015 01:11 PM                     Oh, I did not know the DA10 were recalled. Are you saying that any DA10 out on the field was replaced by a DA20 for free?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-28-2015 03:20 PM                     Yes. That is what I'm saying. There shouldn't be any DA10s out there but I'm sure some never got the message.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 06-28-2015 03:30 PM                     Interesting. The reason I was asking is that years ago I went to service a friend's system and he had an old DA10 in it. That was a second hand system, I guess the previous service guy didn't know about the swap.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 06-28-2015 03:36 PM                     All this takes me back! If I recall correctly, did it not sometimes take several passes of a print to fully acquire the dynamic updates? That could mean that rep houses might never actually update.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 06-28-2015 03:47 PM                     Well, interesting stuff. I've only heard about it as something of a legend but didn't know it actually happened. Does anybody know what prints carried those "side-loaded" updates? And did it give you any kind of visual cue it received an update? And did it have different updates for the DA10/20 and CP500?  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 06-28-2015 04:10 PM                     quote: Marcel Birgelen Does anybody know what prints carried those "side-loaded" updates? And did it give you any kind of visual cue it received an update? And did it have different updates for the DA10/20 and CP500? I can't remember what release first carried the splice cache update. There was no visual indication that an update occurred (or was being downloaded). I can only assume that the update was the same for the DA20 and CP500 since the Dolby Digital decoder in the CP500 was a DA20 but with a bit rate converter taking the place of the DA20 DAC card and without the cinema processor interface card. They both used the same Cat. 673 system services card that contained the software.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 06-28-2015 05:21 PM                     I have the feeling that the code is embedded in the machine printing the track in the lab; once the latest code was uploaded the code would be printed on every print. It's just a guess but it would make sense. The processor would then ignore the code if not newer. If it was only done on specific prints, then some houses may never get that update.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 06-28-2015 05:56 PM                       Lonny Jennings knew the story of recalling the DA10's but it was in the interest of making SR.D work better. The upgrades were stored in the DA20 section or 673 card and not in the CP500 684 card. So, even if the upgrade did not work you still had analog audio.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 06-28-2015 09:10 PM                    Someone...I want to say Brad Hohle but I could be misremembering...said they did do some updates that way. My question was what if you had a 500 as NOS...would it play back a modern track. I think he said yes. What about the updates the 500 never got over the years? Well, according to him they are are still in all the prints. Run one movie and you're up to date. Or maybe I just had a dream where someone told me this.  |  IP: Logged Lonny Jennings Film Handler Posts: 10 From: Boston, MA USA Registered: Feb 2000 posted 06-28-2015 11:37 PM                     You all pretty much got it right. I guess multiple foggy memories equals a crystal clear picture. Dynamic loader was used several times to upgrade the Dolby Digital playback units; DA10, DA20, CP500, CP650. It could but, never was, used to update the firmware of the CP500 itself. After much discussion I finally decided that it was too risky to do that. Besides the aforementioned quandary of upgrading a processor's operating system without the tech's knowledge or consent there was the hopefully unlikely but, possible, scenario that the upgrade package would be flawed and cause all of the CP500's to fail. You would still have bypass operation and playback from the analog track but, it would be probably a couple of weeks before a patched version would restore all of them back to working order. This was simply unacceptable and so it was never done or even considered. One little detail to consider about the dynamic loader system: there was no on/off switch. If there was a new firmware package on the film soundtrack there was no way to prevent it from being loaded into the unit for good or bad! The DA10 was capable of being updated multiple times and was. It did, however, have one episode of a flawed firmware update via dynamic loader. I've long since forgotten the title of the film but, after several DA10's in the LA area ran the film and got upgraded (on Friday afternoon, of course) they started exhibiting load pops and snaps during the Friday evening shows. It was determined that there was a glitch in the new firmware and the Dolby guys in the LA office went out to deal with it. In both the DA10 and the DA20 (that includes the CP500, of course) there was always a “backup” copy of the Dolby Digital firmware called the baseline copy. This was an image of whatever the current version of firmware was at the time the unit was built. It was separate from the “running” version and could not be updated by dynamic loader. It was designed into the system for exactly this failure scenario. It would get the unit up and running again, albeit with an older version of firmware, but you could get by until a patched version was created and put on later titles for patch/upgrade. On either the Cat. No. 609B card in the DA10 or the Cat. No. 673 card in the DA20/CP500 you turned the small rotary switch to the bottom position and that would load the baseline copy. It did not, however, stop it from receiving any more dynamic loader updates. Whenever the patched version was released and put on a soundtrack the DA would be updated when that title was played. Dolby would keep track of who had the flawed version and after we were sure that it had been correctly upgraded the switch would be returned to the “0” position and the now patched version of the firmware would load and run. Dynamic loader was a good system that did work several times over the years without problem apart from that one episode and even then, the baseline backup saved the day. That one episode however, was NOT because it was specifically DA10 code. It could just as easily have occurred in the DA20 package. Due to the considerably greater numbers of DA20's even then it was fortunate that it was only the DA10 package that was flawed but, it wasn't an inherent flaw with the DA10 itself or the dynamic loader concept. However, shortly after that it was decided to stop supporting the DA10 and we proactively replaced all of them with DA20's at no cost to the customers This was done, not because of any limitation in the DA10 but, because it was decided that it was cheaper to get rid of all the DA10's than to continue having engineering write two versions of code, one for each design. Besides the obvious differences in the number and type of DSP boards between the units it also required two, totally different firmware packages to be written and then extensively tested. It just came down to practical economics to replace the DA10's and just write one version of the updates for the DA20/CP500 only.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 06-29-2015 03:50 AM                     That's very interesting, it's sad we've lost all of that when Digital came in. I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple of more questions! Was the new code on a single reel or on the whole movie? I do have an old 500 salvaged from the skip. I have a document that explains how to check all the versions inside the decoders. I understand there is a way to manually upload those versions too, is that correct? When was the last code released and do you have a history of releases? Thanks  |  IP: Logged

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