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Author Topic: Compare 70MM with 4K in San Francisco Geoff Jones Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 579 From: Broomfield, CO, USA Registered: Feb 2006 posted 12-05-2018 09:28 AM                        quote: Giant 44 foot screen??? [Eek!] Yes, I had the same reaction. That's why I added the quotation marks in my original post. (The Castro Website has a photo with the caption: "1,400 seat theatre with a huge 25'x44' screen"). I understand that this event isn't perfect... but it's pretty damn unique. I've never heard of a public comparison between projection formats like this. I guess the consensus is that they shouldn't even bother?  |  IP: Logged Terry Monohan Master Film Handler Posts: 379 From: San Francisco CA USA Registered: May 2014 posted 12-05-2018 10:43 AM                     I was thinking a way the SF Castro Theatre can add width to their screen without coming out front as there is some little backstage room, just put in a curved screen and have it go and curve on the sides and move way back on stage, you could add 20 feet on the sides with the same amount of front proscenium. They would have to move the projection booth downstairs for any keystone problems plus get the correct curved lens both for film & DCP. Now the Castro can add 'A Huge 64 Foot Screen!' There would be so many people complaining I bet like the old silent people and 1.33 film classic crowd. You could still have the masking that moves at top but all the images would have a slight curve to them. Just like the old RKO Golden Gate Cinerama in SF did when they showed 70mm 2001 on a giant curved screen on their stage.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-05-2018 11:18 AM                     I agree that it would be fun to go to see irregardless the size of the screen. Mark  |  IP: Logged Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 12-05-2018 08:25 PM                        The problem is that it's an apples and oranges comparison because the 70mm is the unrestored version and they're not sourced from the same originals. A better comparison would have been between the 70mm Ultra-Pan version of "The Hateful Eight" and the DCP.  |  IP: Logged Tyler Purcell Expert Film Handler Posts: 180 From: Van Nuys, CA Registered: Dec 2015 posted 12-06-2018 02:26 PM                        Actually, the best test would be a modern film like Dunkirk. I'd love to see an A/B comparison of the imax sequences on an imax screen film vs digital.  |  IP: Logged Jean-Pierre Gutzeit Film Handler Posts: 43 From: Berlin, Berlin, Germany Registered: Nov 2012 posted 12-23-2018 03:54 AM                        I agree. The best way to test projection systems would be using a brand new 35mm or 65mm production. Otherwise I was not very impressed by DUNKIRK: to flat, greenish and grainy. A direct 70mm print of MURDERER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS possible could help, but there were only versions won from the Digital Intermediate, no direct prints). A very difficult situation, I think. Normally, a 70mm film print of the 35mm or 65mm original negative is far superior to a 4K DCP, a discussion superfluous here. Unfortunately, however, the overprinted "2001" in all versions available since 2018 (Imax DMR 4K and Imax 70mm, 70mm Todd AO, Blu Ray, UHD) was very inadequate and processed incorrectly. Loss of details in shadows and lights, wrong colors, bad grading/color correction, intensified coarseness of the grain structure, contrast reduction. Impeccable were only the 35mm and 70mm prints of 1968, now faded. Somewhat flawed is the Blu-ray disc from 2008, but it still partially reminiscent of the original look of the colors and contrasts from the 60s, although the sharpness and clarity is not optimal. It's a lost film we never more will see as made for the Todd AO production level. Very pity: the digital restorations of MY FAIR LADY, SPARTACUS or BARAKA are far superior to this "2001" disaster.  |  IP: Logged Helmut Maripuu Film Handler Posts: 25 From: Västerås Västmanland Sweden Registered: Mar 2004 posted 12-23-2018 03:08 PM                     Is it possible to use laser instead of Xenon lamp in 35 and 70 mm projectors. what is the difference in the picture?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-23-2018 04:58 PM                     And your goal would be what with the laser light source? In digital, with xenon we are using a prism to separate the light into the primaries. Having an RGB laser system starts you with what you want. For film, the film itself is the "filter" for the light. So the purer-white (or color temp) your light source, the better. Etandu would be better with a laser light source but you still need the full spectrum before it hits the film. The realities are also that nobody is going to develop much for film projection, at this point, let alone something that would be that cutting edge/expensive.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-25-2018 11:10 PM                        So far, all three of the alternatives (laser phosphor, RGB laser, and the Samsung "big TV") to xenon illumination for digital projection have proven to be simply too expensive to threaten the market dominance of the xenon arc, especially for smaller screens. However, if and when that changes, and the production of xenon bulbs declines, the remaining users of film projectors may be forced to look for an alternative. That having been said, it seems that LED technology is already close to the ballpark to being a viable alternative for that application. I've seen an LED retrofit replacement for the 900w xenon lamphouse in a Fumeo 16mm projector, and it looked pretty darn good to me. If that can be scaled up to be a viable replacement for larger bulbs, my guess is that it would be a lot cheaper than using lasers.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-26-2018 05:58 PM                     Interesting side question with laser projection: To begin my question, I used to,with an old slide scanner, scan 35mm frames for personal collection. This slide scanner would scan images using a very light blue light source. Thus, I notice that frames from Eastman stock came to life due to the added blue light from the source due to the faded cyan dye. Thus, wonder, with laser, if the light can be attenuated to more blue to help on projecting faded 35mm prints... thx - Monte  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-19-2019 08:44 AM                        Funny you should say that, Monte. Many a faded prints cam out way over the years and I wound up actually used a Rosco light-cyan gel in the lamphouse (Peerless Magnarc) to improve faded prints. Of course it never actually restores the color in any meaningful way, so it's barely an improvement, but for what it is worth, it did give an apparent improvement by muting some of the magenta. First I tried gel in front of the lens, but that was useless because it wasn't optical quality. Ideally, there should have been optical filters like the Wrattan filters made specifically, with correction curves and densities for the level of fade in the print -- optical filters that could be place over the projection lens. Barring that, I placed the gel in the Magnarc lamphouse far enough away from where the light focuses enough to burn it. As it was, the gel would only last for two 2000' reels before it bleached too much to be useful.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-21-2019 01:04 PM                        This approach is already used in archival film scanning. The German company MWA-Nova were (AFAIK) the first to do it - incorporate LEDs of the three primary colors into the illumination array, and thereby enable pretty much any color temperature to be set on the light source. The thinking is that color correcting in the analog domain before capture will achieve a better result than having to do it all in software after capture. Their competitors - Lasergraphics, Cintel, etc. - are now all taking this approach as well. In the hands of a skilled operator, this can achieve spectacular results: I've seen footage that looks like a b/w print tinted pink put through one of these, and the resulting digital movies look like they were shot yesterday.  |  IP: Logged

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