Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » The Afterlife   » Video Tape Recorders (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Video Tape Recorders
Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 07-25-2001 12:37 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since it was brought up...

I have a Zenith (JVC built) VHS from 1984 that weighs a ton. I have used it as a loaner machine since 1992, and other than belts, and an occasional cleaning, it has never failed me not once.

I have a Sony SuperBeta from 1986 that is used anytime someone has some home video that they want copied to VHS. It has never failed.

I have a similar NEC machine with Hi-Fi sound with linear stereo. They dropped the linear stereo in 1985. These machines were well-built, as you know, Jesse

Jerry: We had some troubles with the 2-tuner systems when they first came out. Hitachi was very helpful and took care of everything. I never had a problem dealing with them in the 16 years I was in business.

John P: I started working on TV's when they had more tubes than transistors!! I shuddered when I worked on my first VCR: a Sony SL-5000 from 1976. I think the owner still has it, and yes, it was still running the last time I asked.

I HATE trashing all of the machines that I do. Seems like there are less and less field servicable anythings out there.

I still keep some of the Motorola Quasar TV modules around for a certain customer. His set, built in 1970, is still going strong, and is on its 3rd kine (picture tube) He says he will junk it when I can no longer fix it for him. It's a big beautiful cabinet, and I understand why he keeps it.

My newer VCR's are both Sony's, and have both had to have their POWER SUPPLY modules rebuilt twice. They (Sony) keep telling me that it is probably surges in the line killing them. If this is so, why is nothing else getting blown up? This last rebuild, I upgraded several diodes, caps, and resistors. Has not blown again. I hate Sony. The VEGAS that I have seen are not that beautiful, and I noticed the convergence errors in the store! If I am paying that rediculous amount for a damn TV, then it better be damn perfect when I get it!! (end of rant.)

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-25-2001 05:31 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WEGA! It's spelled with a "W"! Look at it!

 |  IP: Logged

Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-25-2001 06:11 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now it has been many years since I have purchased a "boob tube" "idiot box" "soap box" or any other name that you have for a t.v. !

There is one thing that I do know, but I don't know if it still rings true. No two pictures off of two different T.V.s of the same make, model and brand will be the same. Say you go into a store and demo t.v.s. You find one you like. Warehouse people bring out a new one. Guarentee that the picture will be a little different from the one you demmoed. !

 |  IP: Logged

Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 07-25-2001 08:39 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe: You are absolutely correct, as usual. I am not even going to correct the previous post so that you wont look dumb.

WEGA
WEGA
WEGA

OK. I think I have it right now. Whew.

I was thinking for some reason of the Chevy Vega when I was typng. Thats another topic!

I have bought exactly ONE new TV for myself: a SONY 27" XBR with excellent convergence to the edges of the screen. It's been running 8 years now, and I've touched nothing in the kine drive/screen circuitry.
The power supply IC has been changed twice.
After the 2nd time, I installed a computer fan in there beside the IC heat sink. That was 6 years ago, and it has run just fine since.

All but one of my TV's I've owned have been nice ones that were brought in for repairs, fixed, and never picked up even after many calls to the customer.

The odd one is my 1960 RCA color set with the wonderful round screen. Full of tubes. It looks almost-decent after it runs for about 15 minutes. What's convergence?


 |  IP: Logged

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-26-2001 09:50 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In scrounging around the net for cheaper SVHS blank tapes, I ran across a site detailing how to drill a hole in a cassette to fool a recorder into thinking a regular VHS tape was SVHS. This got me to wondering... is the VHS-ET function simply a disabling of the sensor that detects the extra hole in a SVHS tape?

Just ran across this site on D-VHS: http://jkor.com/peter/dvhs.html
Judging from what it says, I won't have to put up with bad copies for much longer. However, all those folks who threw away their 8mm film after having it copied to VHS are going to be kicking themselves.


 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-26-2001 10:43 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry said: "However, all those folks who threw away their 8mm film after having it copied to VHS are going to be kicking themselves."

Transferring home movies to video does make watching them more convenient, but constantly changing video formats mandate keeping the original film so it can be transferred again as current video formats become obsolete. Having a "man-readable" image has its advantages, and the relatively simple mechanics of a projector can be maintained or duplicated in the future.
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/story/fact6.shtml

"Film is an analog image. It’s human readable, and it’s independent of many things
concerning digital today, like its multitude of different formats. Film can be scanned by
today’s high resolution scanners (at resolutions and information densities greater than digital
video capture devices) – and/or any future scanning technology (which may pull out even
more information from the same image). As a result, we use the term “future-proof” to show
film’s compatibility into the foreseeable future. "

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 |  IP: Logged

Bob Maar
(Maar stands for Maartini)


Posts: 28608
From: New York City & Newport, RI
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-26-2001 10:51 AM      Profile for Bob Maar   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have several WEGA's from Sony. One 32" and one 27" they are both great. Clear sharp pictures and no distortions with angles. I really like the flat screen.

P.S. to Bruce, I watch it while I eat my White Tower Hamburger's.


 |  IP: Logged

Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 07-26-2001 03:51 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To Bob Maar: AAAAARRAAUUGGHHH!!!

I eat KRYSTAL burgers while watching my XBR 27" Sony...No baloney!

Seriously, Bob, did you not mean to say White Castles? See what eating those things will do to you?

I'm going to go repair 35mm film now.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-26-2001 03:53 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes... all Super VHS ET does is record the S-VHS signals onto a VHS tape. Drilling a hole in your tape will do the same thing. But VHS tape is inferior to SVHS tape, and the results really are not worth the effort.

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-26-2001 04:17 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is the SVHS tape itself the same as VHS (e.g. formulation, coercivity, particle size and density, etc.) and just higher quality, or is it a different formulation altogether? For example, there is a definite formulation difference for "high bias" or "metal" audio cassettes compared to normal oxide, requiring different recording parameters.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-26-2001 05:38 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think I can fully answer that question, John, but I'll try. SVHS definitely uses tapes that are suitable for "high band". Even when just recording regular VHS on an SVHS tape, I notice a slight improvement over normal tapes. I believe the tape itself is thicker (higher density). I have recorded in SVHS-ET and also have drilled holes into regular VHS tapes to enable SVHS recording. The quality is good (better than normal VHS), but not worth the trouble.

My Mitsubishi VCR has something that is called "Perfectape" (yes, that's how they spell it) which measures the video frequency response of the inserted tape by making a small test recording and playing it back. The SVHS tapes always have a much higher rating in the mid and high video frequencies, whereas even archival VHS tapes have very low high frequency response. So one must assume there are definite physical differences in the tapes themselves.


 |  IP: Logged

Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 07-26-2001 10:42 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, the oxide formulation for SVHS tape is diferent from VHS tape. Since the video carrier frequency for SVHS is higher than VHS, a new oxide was needed in order to handle the required extra HF performance. Also I believe the SVHS oxide requires a higher recording current (gotta hit the tape harder) in order to achieve the same S/N ratio.

Physically (tape dimensions and video/audio track layouts) the two formats are identical.

Regards,

Paul
SMPTE Hollywood Section
Under-employed mercenary film/video projectionist
"When the money runs out so does I."

 |  IP: Logged

Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-27-2001 02:35 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Besides bieng a better quality tape reel way that Super VHS works is that it records the Luminance and Chrominance as two seperate signals.

 |  IP: Logged

Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-27-2001 09:32 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Besides bieng a better quality tape reel way that Super VHS works is that it records the Luminance and Chrominance as two separate signals.

I believe plain old VHS does that as well. It's just that only professional quality decks and SVHS decks have the S-Video in and out to take advantage of it. With VHS, isn't there some degradation in the color signal due to interference between the luminamce and color signals? I thought SVHS helped this problem by providing a wider gap in the frequencies used for the two carriers. Don't VHS and SVHS record the color in exactly the same way, with only the luminance portion having a higher bandwidth? (1.6MHz vs. 1.0 MHz)? I have several reference books on this subject, but doggone it, I can't seem to locate any of them at the moment. I'm reciting details from memory, from about 10 years ago. I hope they're right. Since I can't verify my facts at the moment, I'm posing them in the form of questions, hoping someone in the know can say I'm right (or wrong).

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site


 |  IP: Logged

Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-27-2001 10:01 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I found a WWW site that is pretty good about explaining how VHS VCRs work that is easy to understand, and has some diagrams.

Here's the link.

VHS uses different frequencies for color (0.129MHz to 1.129MHz) and luminance (3.4 MHz to 4.4 MHz). The center frequency and deviation of the luminance portion are different in VHS (3.4 MHz to 4.4 MHz) and SVHS (5.4MHz to 7.0MHz). I believe the main problem with VHS was the interference of the lower FM sideband from the luminance portion with the color signal.

It appears the the professor's main reference for his information is the exact same book I have, but can't find at the moment.

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site


 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.