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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: "THE TEN COMMANDMENTS" on DVD
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Tao Yue
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 209
From: Princeton, NJ
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-15-2004 07:01 PM
Yes, I have no doubt that the DVD looks exactly the same as the 35mm reduction prints you saw. In fact, on letterboxed VHS, the scribed VistaVision framing marks could be seen during the start of the main title, and they clearly indicate the 1.85 area.
As for why compose the titles for CinemaScope, might as well point to the firsthand account: the Google archive of Mr. Schlesinger's posting on rec.arts.movies.tech. As for the Dome aggravating the cropping, see a post from someone who saw the 70mm blowup somewhere other than the Dome.
Of course, they could've just shot two versions of the titles, who knows what they were thinking 50 years ago?
This sort of thing where truth is stranger than fiction reminds me of that rumor (still being passed around online) about Ronald Haver having a film collector arrested so he could get access to missing elements for the reconstruction of A Star is Born (1954). It's easy for some film collectors to believe that a somewhat controversial person pulled a dirty trick, but it's harder to believe that the collector was turned in by a friend of his who saw the preliminary reconstruction and became outraged that he was hoarding the elements. Mr. Haver's book recounts the latter in some detail, and does it earnestly enough that I'd rather believe him than a rumor.
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Tao Yue
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 209
From: Princeton, NJ
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-16-2004 08:05 PM
Claude wrote:
quote:
Although Tao did not say it was shot twice, he gave me the impression that he believe there is a possibility it was from the links he had provided.
I have a theory about how he got confused. Note that he quoted me as having said "two versions of the title" where title is singular. But in my post, I actually wrote "titles" where titles is plural.
Now, title (singular) could mean movie, as in: "Sorry, sir, we don't have that title on DVD, would you like to rent it on VHS instead?" But titles (plural) would not make much sense when discussing one particular film, and I'd been referring to "main titles" in every one of my posts anyway.
Funny how big a difference one letter could make. Two friendly suggestions for Claude:
- Read things in context and don't rush to conclusions based on one sentence. (In the context of his entire speech, Al Gore never said he invented the Internet, in fact he didn't even use the word invent)
- In the future, quote other people's posts using copy-and-paste, not by typing in what you thought you read.
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Stephen Furley
Film God
Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002
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posted 04-17-2004 04:39 PM
Robert wrote:
quote:
8 Perf VVLA releases (all two or three) had variable area optical tracks at the top of the frame.
Robert, I have some questions about Vista prints. This is the only sample of 8-perf Vista print that I have:
I believe that it is from 'Battle of the River Plate', (can anyone confirm thiis?)
It clearly has a VD track, so both types of tracks must have been used.
I first saw a sample of Vista print when I was at College in the mid '70s, I was unaware of the process until I saw this, I don't know what film it was from, but I do remember that it had a VA track, duo-bilateral I believe, but it's a long time to think back.
Can you tell me anything about the track shown above? It seems to have little, if any, silver or cyan dye in it. The scan is rather dark, the track actually has rather low optical density. The cyan dye has clearly faded with time, but what about the silver? Was it a dye-only track, and if so, how was it reproduced on the equipment in use at the time. I have seen a number of tracks similar to this, but all the others have been on 16mm prints, and the sound quality from them has been generally rather poor. I could believe that an inferior type of track might have been used to make cheap 16mm prints of educational titles, where the sound quality was not of great concern, but it seems unlikely that if would have been done for an 8-perf print. I have seen other VD tracks on faded colour prints, but they seem to have much more silver in them.
I know that many of the 4-perf reduction prints of Vista titles had Perspecta tracks; dou know if any of the 8-perf prints also had them?
Do you have a full list of the titles which were publicly shown as 8-perf prints?
How was the restoration of 'Vertigo' done? obviously, the original elements would have been Vista, and the final internegs for printing would have been 65mm and 4-perf 35mm, but at what point in the process was the conversion made, was the film kept in Vista format during most of the work, or was it printed to 65mm at an early stage, and most of the work done in that format.
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Robert Harris
Film Handler
Posts: 95
From: Bedford Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 04-19-2004 07:12 AM
Stephen...
This certainly appears to be Mr. Powell's work.
The prints of "Vertigo," both 70 and 35mm, were derived from the same 8perf interpositives and dupes, ie. we went both up and down in size from the original vista elements, which is the only way to preserve the quality of the original.
This same concept comes into play when creating a 70mm blowup from a 35/4 source element.
70mm prints produced via blowup in the 60s and 70s were generally all produced from original 35mm A & B rolls, which resulted in superb quality and a great deal of wear on the Onegs.
Once we hit the 1980s, 70s were produced in two additional ways.
One could either produce a 35mm IP from the Oneg and use that as a source for a 65mm dupe, which resulted in a large format print without much of the detail found in the original...
or via a 65mm IP from the 35/4 Oneg, which achieved a far superior result. An examaple of this can be found in prints of Silverado.
The obvious point here is to either get to your large format element at the earliest stage, or to leave large format at the latest stage in production of elements.
RAH
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Stephen Furley
Film God
Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002
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posted 04-19-2004 08:37 AM
Hello Bernard, haven't heard from you for a long time.
My frames came from the packet of samples enclosed in Dion Hanson's 'Fantastic Formats' booklet. A reel of the same film, in the same condition, was what I saw projected, without sound, at the exhibition at Grip House Studios a few years ago. Even in that condition it looked impressive.
I have never found chromogenic dye VD tracks to sound very good, compared to silver ones on black and white or IB prints.
Somebody who once lent me a Cinecolor print told me that the blue/cyan image was made by toning with a metalic compound, which absorbs strongly in the infra-red. I don't know if this is correct. The print I saw had very low visible density, but it didn't sound as bad as it looked, played with an old glass photocell.
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