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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Topic: Star Wars Ep IV audio mixing errors
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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999
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posted 09-23-2004 09:15 AM
Mike is an extremely thorough researcher. He is not satisfied at anything less than total accuracy. I know that he goes to sometimes extreme length to get accurate, provable information. I have learned that his mistakes are rare and that he is extremely reliable. He also willingly corrects information that is proven to be incorrect.
I also note that, to date, no one has offered any corrections to his information.
It's a moot point, anyway, as I doubt George "Digital" Lucas will ever let the films out again unless they are his new approved "I'll get these suckers to buy this, then I'll change it again to get them to buy more" versions. He can show them in digital theatres, and make changes EVERY DAY if he wants to. I can see the ads..."See Empire Today with its new, happier ending, featuring a special appearance by Jar Jar Binks!!"
I have lots of DVD's. None are, or ever will be, by George Lucas. He doesn't care, but it makes me feel a bit better.
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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-23-2004 09:19 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
What gets on my nerves about this deal is the only way I'm sure I would ever get a corrected disc in a dependable manner is if I bought the screwed up box set and mailed in the first disc for a fixed copy.
All too true, unfortunately. Several discs I bought from Universal I had to return by mail to get corrections (Back to the Future II and III, Pillow Talk, Meaning of Life). Fox was very quick to send out new Cleopatra discs with exit music restored.
I liked what was done on This is Spinal Tap and Never Say Never Again. At least they added three asteriks in front and at the end of the title on those stickers that are slapped on the top edge of the container.
quote: Michael Schaffer
But I don't remember any music in the surround channel either back in the old days
Neither do I, and I saw Star Wars 4 times at 3 different theatres in 70mm back in 1977. I specifiucally remember very little surround usage, and couldn't even hear the famous effect of the opening spaceship coming overhead. the only surround usage I remember were the sounds of the creatures on Luke's home planet echoing throught the twilight and the echo of Luke and Princess Leia's voices when they notice there is no way to get across the retracted bridge inside the death star. I couldn't discern any surrounds during the climatic battle, either. Only when I saw it a few weeks later in 35mm Dolby SVA was there some surrounds for the music and effects, but for all I know, this could have been leakage.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-23-2004 11:53 PM
The Digital Bits' website published a response from Lucasfilm, which basically denied any of the mix for "Star Wars" was botched. Concerning the score being botched, it comes down to two valid points expressed on a number of DVD review websites and 'blogs.
The first point is the effect is distracting. I'm hearing violins playing in the front left channel and then a point sourced double of it in the right rear.
The other valid point is the score mix, at times, mimicking the layout of a real orchestra. Violins, horns, harps, etc. are to the left. As you work right, you have 2nd violins, violas, cellos, bass, etc. If you hear violins playing front left and the sound is meant to bleed to the surrounds, naturally the left surround would need to pick up that audio. With it happening in the right surround it seems very misplaced.
But then "noticing it" comes to the other major complaint: the music score is dialed down often. There are certain memorable, key points in the score that are all but inaudible in this mix. I know it's important for the disc's sound effects to slam well. But I have lots of DVDs where the sound effects kicked much ass without stomping out the music score.
I'm glad others have noticed the harsh-at-times quality with the audio on the "Star Wars" disc. That's a bit surprising, given the DD bitrate is 448kb/s. There's just something going on with the mix itself. The beginning where the Blockade Runner is being chased by the Star Destroyer sounds particularly harsh, even with the added explosions in the split surrounds when the shot cuts to C3PO staggering in a hallway on the spaceship.
Many have pointed out Governor Tarkin's "give me another target, a military target" line. One that got my attention was a line from Luke (at 1:27:27), "What good will it do us if he gets himself killed?" (Han runs after stormtroopers on the Death Star). The dialog volume jumps on that line and sounds like a bad ADR drop-in. And the line seems like it gets clipped at the end.
Aside from all the whining, there are plenty of good things about these discs. The video quality is really good, likely a testimonial to the restoration work done. I might have overlooked some things, but the only complaint I have is with the look of the Death Star explosion. I don't remember all that strange blue noise around the explosion. Here's a screen grab from the DVD (reduced to 500 pixel width):
The first time I saw it I thought it was an video encoding defect. That blue stuff could be there on purpose, but it just looks odd.
quote: Bobby Henderson
The very worst change made, IMHO, is the one with the emporer and his spoiler dialog. He tells Vader in this scene that not only did Skywalker blow up the Death Star, but that he is also Vader's son. That totally blows the surprise intended for the audience when Vader laid the truth onto Luke.
Ok. I jumped the gun on this complaint, mainly reacting to what I had read others type in various reviews. While the altered scene is still a bit "wartish" for the changes made, it really doesn't blow the big "Luke, I am your father" development. The emperor merely says Luke is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker. None of us knew Anakin and Darth were one and the same until Darth uttered his famous line. Still, the prequel episodes may be spoilers of sorts depending upon the order in which a newbie to the Star Wars saga views the films/videos.
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