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Author Topic: LCD TV image quality
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-12-2005 02:23 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak is licensing its NUVUE Organic Light Emitting Diode (OLED) technology and materials to quite a few manufacturers:

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=1473/1481/1490&pq-locale=en_US

quote:
KODAK OLED Licensee Manufacturers
Kodak supplies exclusive OLED materials and expertise to the companies with which it has licensing agreements. These include:
DENSO Corp.
eMagin Corp.
Lite Array Inc.
Nippon Seiki Co., Ltd.
Opsys Ltd.
Opto Tech Corp.
OPTREX Corp.
Pioneer Electronics Corp.
Ritek Corp.
Rohm Ltd.
Samsung NEC Mobile Display Co., Ltd.
Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd., a Kodak joint-development partner
TDK Corp.
TECO Electric & Machinery Co., Ltd.
Truly International
Varitronix International Ltd.




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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-03-2005 02:47 PM      Profile for Jeff Taylor   Email Jeff Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually Samsung is now quoting 60,000 hrs for their LCD's and for their plasma halflife.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-03-2005 06:15 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do you have to change lamps in rear projection TVs (the kind that are self-contained, not the kind you point at a wall)?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-03-2005 10:49 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
Do you have to change lamps in rear projection TVs (the kind that are self-contained, not the kind you point at a wall)?


Although many rear screen projection televisions still use CRTs, AFAIK those that use other imagers (e.g. LCD, DLP, D-ILA)have lamps that will eventually fail or lose light output.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-11-2005 12:26 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a friend who swears by CRT projection, and after seeing his setup, so do I. He claims the ones made in the 1980s and designed for corporate use, then in the $15k to $25k range, can now be gotten used for 1/3rd their original high cost. And there seems to be a large number of these used units available because the corporations which were their original intended market quickly retired these projectors once the small portable LCDs and DLPs became available.

The three gun CRT projectors are big and VERY heavy; they certainly are not portable, which is a big disadvantage compared to the much smaller current crop of vidprojectors. The CRTs also had the disadvantage of having a virtually fixed image-size-to- throw-distance -- another fairly big negative for most people.

But all that aside, if you can live with these three gun monsters in your home theatre, the picture quality blows everything else out of the water, be it DLP or 3LCD. CRTs give super sharp, brilliant images, saturated colors and real, black-blacks. And from what he says, you never have to worry about what signal you feed it -- there is nothing it cannot reproduce. Because of the nature of the CRT system itself, these units will handle any HD signal up to 2500x2000 and they can produce images widths to 20ft-25ft wide.

Unfortunately they cannot compete with DLPs and 3LCDs in the brightness department. This isn't too much of a disadvantage if you intend to keep the room dark (hence "Home THEATRE," not "Home Den") and when a silver screen is used, the brightness looks just fine.

I never knew about the larger CRT projectors until my friend called me over to see his newly purchased, newely installed Sony. We watched DVD OKLAHOMA! and I was very, very impressed. I do know about CRT projection because the first thing I did when I got my first apartment, I bought what was then only in its test marketing stage, Advent's VideoBeam. It isn't the size or the resolution of these larger units, but I purchased it in 1977 and the image hasn't deteriorated at all. In all these years, I've only had to replace the green gun and a flyback transformer. Other than that it is one awesome piece of equipment. Blacks are TOTALLY black. And as Kloss told us at a demo, interlace is not a negative in and of itself, it's only when the circuitry can't line up the lines perfectly that they are a distraction. He claimed that his VideoBeam had better interlace accuracy than broadcast monitors. He was right; from 3 feet away, you cannot see any line structure at all.

Anyway, that's my take on 3 gun CRT video projectors.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 07-11-2005 12:57 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
CRT-based projectors are undoubtedly still the leader in absolute image quality, but they require very careful setup to extract that performance. Brightness can be increased by "stacking" multiple projectors.

The thing about attaining absolute black is kind of interesting, because you rarely see absolute black or anything close to it in a movie theatre. The closest to absolute black I've seen from film was "Minority Report" which I believe was printed on Kodak Vision Premier 2393 stock. Most release prints don't come close to replicating that kind of black. Yet there's no denying that home theater components that can't do black well come off looking deficient.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-12-2005 03:01 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was in a bar last weekend that had some kind of a big screen flat TV...might have been plasma, I don't know. Here is my question: Why are all "widescreen" TVs mounted in bars and restaurants set up to where the "ESPN" (or whatever) picture fills the wide screen from side to side, looking like a "flat" movie with the "scope" lens in? Don't these people notice that IT DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT?!

I was thinking maybe all owners of those sets were idiots, but that can't be right. (Can it?)

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-12-2005 04:08 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Don't these people notice that IT DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT?!
No no, these people aren't idiots. The people you describe are called "morons". They may or may not notice it, but they don't care since they are morons. Their logic is that they paid for a wide screen, and every frame of video shown on it should fill its entire real estate, dadgummit! Certain types of TVs like plasma and rear projection have burn-in that happens within only a few minutes of any static image, so owners of those sets stretch all video in a vain attempt to avoid burn-in. But these people are still morons for having purchased those types of sets to begin with.

The population really does need to be decreased.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 07-12-2005 11:44 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The irony is that running a plasma in stretch mode just equalizes the burn across the entire screen. Try explaining that to someone who's just shelled out $5K+ on a plasma. [Big Grin] I gotta concede though that the most current generation of plasmas look pretty damn good.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-21-2005 09:19 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Friend of mine has a Pioneer wide screen and it has a circuit that stretches the image as mentioned, with one exception...it doesn't stretch it linerly; the center of the screen remains normal, i.e., non-streched -- the sides of the image are gradually stretched so that they fill the 16:9 frame.

At first I was appalled than I could even have a friend who could look at a deformed image and worse yet, expect me to sit and watch it. As it turns out, it was not as offensive as I thought it would be. Most of the time the action that you are supposed to focus on is framed in the center anyway, and it looks normal. For watching sitcoms and the rest of the wasteland that is TV, it's not terrible, albeit it does give the picture a "fish-eye" look when the camera does any paning (I just make believe I am watching Dome Imax). And I guess if I bought a $5000 projection tv, I would take steps to insure that I didn't burn in the center portion of the screen. Watching a wide screen movie and seeing two discolored bars making it look like Cinerama would make me more crazy than I alread am. If doing the stretch thing for non-essential stuff I guess is a good compromise.

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