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Author Topic: Stereophonic re-mixes of mono soundtracks Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 12-05-2005 06:01 PM                     The only Perspecta-to-Dolby-SVA remix I ever saw was in a 35mm studio print of LUST FOR LIFE (1954), and it sounded quite accurate. As for DVDs, I wish they would always include the original mono track - I hate those "reprocessed" mono tracks. FLIGHT OF THE PHOENIX was definitely spoiled for me by the tinny, hollow pseudo-stereo remix. AS long as they can put "5.1 Dolby Digital" on the box... BTW, some studios never care to find stereo versions of foreign language dubs. In Germany, nearly every 70mm spectacle has been issued on DVD with the English version in 5.1 multichannel and the dubbed version in plain mono from optical sound, although these versions exist in perfectly usable archival and collector's prints. MY FAIR LADY, AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS, EL CID and many CinemaScope 4-track productions come to my mind.  |  IP: Logged John Koutsoumis Master Film Handler Posts: 261 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Registered: Aug 2003 posted 12-05-2005 07:09 PM                     The "White Christmas" DVD has the restored mono track as well as the 5.1. "High Society" was a great multi' channel mix. All the Musical numbers were possibly 3 channel stereo originally. For the most part the effects and dialogue are center channel and the rest kick in with the musical numbers which I think is a nice touch, especially if you have a great sound system. But I agree in most cases in they should also have restored mono tracks. On the other hand although I haven't heard it in full 5.1 "A Clockwork Orange" sounds better in stereo than the mono track I experienced when I saw it in 35mm 2 years ago.  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-06-2005 12:36 AM                        If Chace or someone has created fake stereo for the track from mono, beware of ugly flangy mushy artifacts & sound if it's played back in mono.  |  IP: Logged John Koutsoumis Master Film Handler Posts: 261 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Registered: Aug 2003 posted 12-06-2005 07:09 AM                     Any titles in particalur that are done by Chace or other baddies?? Would they have been invloved in the stereo mix of "North by Northwest" that is heard on the deluxe special edition Laserdisc? Don't know of the foley effects were re-done but on the stereo track they are very loud!  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-17-2005 10:16 PM                        William, that's a good rule of thumb when playing back any pseudo-stereo mix -- NEVER sum the channels back to mono. One of the main tricks that almost every pseudo-stereo generator employs is adding delay in varing amounts to various slices of the audio spectrum. It's usually added at specific frequences with different time values. Mixing this stuff back to mono usuall makes it sound like the track it's playing from a speaker under water, what with all the flanging going on.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-24-2005 03:26 AM                        Regarding Mark's comment about the Chase stereo remix for "THE HIGH & THE MIGHTY". I do agree with him about how unimpressed he was with sound. Yes, the film was released in four track mag stereo and I did see it presented it that way in 1954 when it was first released. The theatrical stereo mix was awesome and featured discrete sound in the front sound field with awesome mono surround. I was hoping the original stereo mix was preserved but I think I read about Jack L. Warner ordering all stereo recordings at Warner Brothers erased so the tapes could be reused. The sound on the DVD was ok but no way as great as the original theatrical presentaion. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 12-24-2005 12:23 PM                     HOwever, in the case of THE HIGH AND THE MIGHTY, they did have the original mixes (although in bad condition). They changed it anyway.  |  IP: Logged Ron Lacheur Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 650 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-08-2006 06:56 PM                     quote: Paul Linfesty AFAIK, the DVD features the correct 4-track mix, albeit with a clipped high end (to get rid of that "hiss" that Fox loves to do. Rolling off the higher frequencies is not an acceptable method of eliminating hiss. If they had the budget to do a correct audio restoration, I'm sure they would have ran it through a Cedar NR unit. It's questionable as to how many of these " remixes " are actual remixes. There is a plugin available for the TC 6000 called " Unwrap " which will pull a stereo source and create a 5.1 enviroment.  |  IP: Logged Robert Harris Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Bedford Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 01-17-2006 09:26 AM                     A few thoughts re: stereo re-mixes... Our ability to derive quality audio is based solely upon the survival of prime elements, and the intent of the studio at the time of the production. Many films which were released as monaural or Perspecta had stereo music stems in either 3 or 4 track. Some of the studio productions from the 1940s were recorded with multiple mikes, which allow for the creation of stereo, although that may not have been the original intent. North by Northwest is a good example of a film for which the original stems had survived. As to some specifics... Lawrence was recorded as a 4 track, however the master would not run in '87 and the audio was derived from the print master (the mag used to sound hundreds of mag prints), in addition to newly recorded dialogue and older bits and pieces. Some of the original 6 track masters for Spartacus had survived from either preview or roadshow cuts, with superb audio. My Fair Lady, which was a 4 track original, was missing several units of 4 track, which necessitated the use of the 6 track print master, which had been overused and was missing high end. Intercutting the two sounded wrong from a quality position. "Vertigo" was an interesting case, as no original mixed audio survived, and no magnetic dialogue or effects. The best quality was found on used 35mm prints. We did, however, locate the original music floor recordings, some of which were mono and some 3 track stereo. The sound was and is incredibly clean and superb. While a proper restored soundtrack using the stereo music was researched and planned, the studio desired a more "modern" sound, hence the added effects tracks, of which no one one the restoration team is terribly fond, but the studio pays the bills and makes those decisions. We were simply "out-voted." The tracks can still be re-done properly and to Hich's specs. Birds in the dead forest was not in Hitchcock's notes. Please also note that many DVDs use the term 5.1 not as a reference to the reality of the tracks, but rather, to the holding technology available, and into which the tracks have been placed. Occasionally, we'll see this correctly stated as 3.0 or 4.0. Hope this is helpful. RAH  |  IP: Logged

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