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Author Topic: Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut Michael Coate Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1904 From: Los Angeles, California Registered: Feb 2001 posted 11-27-2006 09:01 PM                      |  IP: Logged Chad Souder Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 962 From: Waterloo, IA, USA Registered: Feb 2000 posted 11-28-2006 01:20 PM                     The reason I hated the revenge scene was that Superman would never, ever stoop to the level of petty revenge. He knew he was the shit but he acted without ego. Having him go back to tell off a bully makes him, well, human!  |  IP: Logged Pravin Ratnam Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 844 From: Atlanta, GA,USA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 11-30-2006 08:55 AM                     The spinning the earth scene was the dumbest scene in Superman 1. And now, they restore that dumbass scene in part 2? Then again, the only thing dumber than that was the kiss. So if that means the kiss scene is going to go away, so be it. I was not even a teen when I saw both movies, and even at that time, I felt like my intelligence was being bitchslapped by the filmmakers by making me endure those two scenes.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-30-2006 12:20 PM                        I listened to the commentary and watched the documentaries on the DVD. Apparently, the spinning-the-earth scene was originally intended to be used as the end of II. But, release date for Part I was looming and they didn't have an ending for it figured out, so they just decided to use the spinning earth to end that film, and then figure out an ending for part II later. (As we all know, both movies were shot at the same time.) Then, Richard Donner was taken off the project so he never got a chance to "come up with" a new ending for II, so for this cut he used his original ending. The original concept was that the two films were all one big story.. Donner now ought to re-cut the whole thing into one 4-hour movie with one ending.  |  IP: Logged Mike Schindler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1039 From: Oak Park, IL, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 01-22-2007 03:49 PM                     I finally saw this thing. It's interesting as a historical curiosity, but it's still a bad movie. Maybe not as bad as Lester's version, but what is? SPOILERS: The spinning back time thing is handled better cinematographically speaking, but storywise, the implications are really kind of shady. That's a really abusive use of his powers, and a huge betrayal of not only Lois, but the planet on a whole. Also, there's no reason for that ending to be there. The movie would have worked way better if it had just ended 5 minutes earlier. The characters would have developed quite a bit, and things would be in an interesting place for SUPERMAN III. Instead, the clock is reset (literally), and all of the events in the movie may as well not have happened in the first place. The best part is, if they had left out that last scene, it would almost perfectly work with SUPERMAN RETURNS continuity. The way the time travel is presented in this film implies that the world works kind of like a videotape. It can be rewound back to the beginning and restarted. It even has the equivalent of tape degradation, with people vaguely recalling what came before. Of course, why events play out differently with no apparent change in variables doesn't make sense, and why things in that diner didn't change makes no sense either. It would also shatter the minds of astronomers when they see all sorts of seemingly constant cosmic variables out of place. So yeah, the movie's slightly less dumb than it was before, but it's still pretty dumb.  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 01-22-2007 04:52 PM                     Although it appears that way, I never thought that Superman was actually "spinning the earth" backwards to reverse time. His flying around the world was so fast (thinking speed of light as Einstein speculated and Dustin mentioned--two great minds!) that time was going backwards; it's visual manifestation was the appearance that the world was actually reversing its spin. It wasn't that the earth was isolated in this time-shift, everything was similarly affected. We just had a discussion of time-travel in the movies at work this morning. Yeah, it was slow today. And it never seems to be accomplished without causing a host of story problems specific to the method of time-travel. As Austin Powers said, "There, I've gone cross-eyed." Okay, maybe it's a shitty story device to get out of plot hole. It never bothered me all that much (the effect kinda looked neat-o) until I read this thread. The nits that I have to pick with the movie involve that big cellophane "S" and that kid near the beginning in that small town (near planet "Houston"?) with what sounds like a British accent(?). "Please put my Daddy down!" I took my nephew to see this when it was in the theater. He totally bought it, and call me corny, but I got goosebumps when Supe-baby flew the American flag back to the White House. I'd like to see the new-old version sometime soon.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-22-2007 05:51 PM                        Hillary: The two "nits" that you mention are not in the Donner cut, so you should love it!  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 01-22-2007 07:31 PM                     Thanks Mike! That's very encouraging.  |  IP: Logged Greg Anderson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 766 From: Ogden Valley, Utah Registered: Nov 1999 posted 01-22-2007 09:04 PM                        The problem with the way spinning the earth is portrayed... you see Superman put the world in reverse and then spin it back the other direction to make it go forward again. If he were simply going super fast to make himself travel back in time, then there would be no reason to restart the earth this way. So... yeah. Totally dopey. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet... http://www.howitshouldhaveended.com/Divx%20links/Superman.html ...It's the way Superman should have ended. I think it's much better than the ending of any real Superman movie.  |  IP: Logged Michael Coate Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1904 From: Los Angeles, California Registered: Feb 2001 posted 01-22-2007 10:48 PM                     I don't care about spoilers now that the DVD has been out for a couple of months... quote: Hillary: The two "nits" that you mention are not in the Donner cut, so you should love it! quote: Hillary Charles Thanks Mike! That's very encouraging. Yeah, but Hillary's "goosebumps" scene is also not present in the Donner cut. So maybe she won't like the Donner cut after all. (The flag-flying and roof re-installing scene — with the lame freeze-frame water fountain — was one of the bogus newly-written scenes to help get Lester sole director credit.)  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-23-2007 01:35 AM                        Maybe she'll get goosebumps at the restored Brando footage!  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 01-23-2007 04:33 PM                     OH NOW I AM SO CONFLICTED!!!! Yeah, it might be worth watching for Brando before he had TOO many pies, but his Scotchlite suit doesn't do anything for me. OMG Michael, I had forgotten all about the freeze-frame fountain! Wasn't that frozen because Superman stopped time...? I guess I'll just have to put together my own cut.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 01-24-2007 11:19 AM                    Where's the Phantom Editor when we need him?  |  IP: Logged Tao Yue Expert Film Handler Posts: 209 From: Princeton, NJ Registered: Apr 2001 posted 02-12-2007 03:07 AM                        The Lester Superman II just looks hacked together now that I've seen the Donner Superman II. And this is true even though the Donner cut has also been hacked-together. The editing on the old one is decidedly clunkier than the original, as it had to meet the mandated 50% of screen time for Lester. Some bad scenes were allowed to drag on, and good scenes cut down to establishing shots. Even though Donner apparently insisted on cutting out as much Lester footage as possible, this doesn't add nearly as much choppiness to the editing since Donner had shot so much of Superman II to start with. I wouldn't worry about the ending. Someday, a decade or two from now, some fan will put together a totally digital-model ending with the original actor's synthesizes voices. It was unexpected that Warners paid for the new cut to begin with, they clearly weren't going to spend oodles of money to make it perfect.  |  IP: Logged Oliver Harper Film Handler Posts: 29 From: Cambridge, United kingdom Registered: Mar 2007 posted 04-24-2007 05:44 AM                     Im working on a recut of Superman IV!..yeah i know its a bad film but with the new material been released on the dvd even though its in a bad state the film works alot better with it added together. Im working with a proffesional on this, so hopefully get the film colour corrected and the effects cleaned up.  |  IP: Logged

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