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Topic: The BD of RAN is terrible!

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-20-2010 02:03 AM

quote: Michael Coate
Has the "Days Of Heaven" Blu-ray been transferred in its 35mm 1.85:1 aspect ratio or in its 2.00:1 70mm blow-up ratio?

According to Blu-ray.com, Criterion opened the 35mm film frame to fill the 1.78:1 aspect ratio for HDTV screens. So the BD is neither 1.85:1 or the 2.0:1 ratio that may have been on the 70mm blow up prints. I'm annoyed by the 2.0:1 ratio nonsense these days for the cropping work Vittorio Storaro has done to his own 2.39:1 masterpieces. We don't watch TV on square TV sets anymore, dude! Eat some ziti and open up that rectangle!

The screen shots from the DVD Beaver website review look pretty nice for frame grabs. And then there's this comment from Robert Harris in his "A few words about" review at the Home Theater Forum:

quote: Robert Harris
If one only purchases five Blu-ray discs in 2010, this should be one of them. It belongs in every serious library.

Extremely Highly Recommended.

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-21-2010 12:32 PM

Watched it. I can't believe this caused so much commotion! It' not that bad. Not as good as many, but not bad at all.

Butch Cassidy is still the worst looking blue ray I have seen.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-21-2010 03:43 PM

See Mike...that is your problem...you were watching a knock-off disc. The proper version of Butch Cassidy is a Blu-Ray...not a Blue-Ray!

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-26-2010 01:42 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Criterion opened the 35mm film frame to fill the 1.78:1 aspect ratio for HDTV screens. So the BD is neither 1.85:1 or the 2.0:1 ratio that may have been on the 70mm blow up prints.

Thanks. I thought I would ask about the 2.00:1 thing because I imagine there are some "purists" out there who will cry foul thinking that the movie should be 2.00:1.

I'm not sure I agree with the purists since I imagine the film looks just fine at 1.78:1, and 1.78:1 (aka 16:9) is what many widescreen-era 1.85:1 spherical films get transferred at these days anyway. However, I do think an argument could be made that 2.00:1 is the most correct ratio for the film since that is what was on the film's 70mm blow-up prints, and it's that 70mm "showcase" version that the critics saw at the media screenings, it's what audiences in the major markets experienced, and certainly was the version that prompted the film's Oscar nominations for cinematography (which it won) and sound mix.

quote: Bobby Henderson
I'm annoyed by the 2.0:1 ratio nonsense these days for the cropping work Vittorio Storaro has done to his own 2.39:1 masterpieces.

Yeah, I agree. I kind of understood Storaro's reasoning twenty years ago when all of us had rather small 4:3 TVs, but if he's still doing this in our current era of higher-rez software and 16:9 televisions, then it's nothing more than revisionist tinkering. Which makes me wonder if in regard to "Days Of Heaven" if the lab personnel arbitrarily came up with the idea to crop a bit from the top and bottom to make the image "wider" or if the film's DP, Nestor Almendros, composed the imagery during production with an eventual 2.00:1 crop in mind.

quote: Bobby Henderson
2.0:1 ratio that may have been on the 70mm blow up prints

May have been? If you or anyone is questioning my sanity on this 2.00:1 thing, I should point out that just a few years ago I had the pleasure of attending a private screening of one of the few surviving 70mm prints of "Days Of Heaven" and verified the matter first-hand by both viewing the film and hand-inspecting a reel. Until that screening I too thought it was bunk whenever I heard or read people claiming 2.00:1 was that film's aspect ratio.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-26-2010 02:29 PM

I haven't seen Days of Heaven in 70mm. I don't have time to write a research paper on it to confirm every technical detail and don't care enough to do so either. I figured using the term "may" -which is still a positive, affirmative term, would have been a safe choice to write.

These days, I reserve my annoyance for more important things, like if my house gets robbed. The 2.00:1 vs. 1.85:1 thing on Days of Heaven falls closer to my "don't give a shit" category. If you say it's 2.00:1 on 70mm, fine. I believe you.

As for the in-camera framing and safe action area of Days of Heaven, who knows for certain? Methods and schools of thought on composition vary from one DP to another. Maybe the video interview with Haskell Wexler on the Criterion BD might provide some insight.

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-26-2010 09:55 PM

When I saw DAYS OF HEAVEN in 7u0mm at Mann's Bruin Theatre in Westwood (the 6pm show on the Monday before closing (I think the 11th of December), the image was a little bit wider than 1.85, but this was the first time I was at the theatre, so I wasn't sure of the set-up. Fame was a 1.85 film in 70mm, but when it played in Bakersfield, it also showed up wider than 1.85 because the theatre cropped the 70mm image to fit their standard 35mm screen. Anyway, I saw THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS at the same theatre on its opening that Wednesday (first showing) and it was properly 1.85 in 35mm format, I had no idea DAYS OF HEAVEN was shot flat at the time, so I believed I was actually seeing TRUE 2 to 1 70mm ratio that was bandied about.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 03-27-2010 01:02 AM

Man, you guys are talking about a lot of movies I've never heard of. Why weren't these movies very popular? Days of Heaven, Secret Life of Plants, what are these strange movies?

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-27-2010 05:41 PM

Secret Life of Plants was a pseudo-documentary released by Paramount about the alleged intelligence of plants. Music by Stevie Wonder. A one-week Oscar qualifying run, it managed to get 0 nominations.

Days of Heaven was a Terrence Malick film starring Richard Gere Brooke Adams and Linda Manz.

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Hillary Charles
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 748
From: York, PA, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-27-2010 07:04 PM

We studied "Days of Heaven" in film school. It really is one of the most beautifully photographed films I've ever seen. The best we ever had was a 16mm print, but it was tack sharp, can't imagine what it must have looked like in 70mm.

And the Ennio Morricone score is haunting. It seems to crop up all the time. Lately, I heard this title music in some commercial.

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-27-2010 07:34 PM

I saw DAYS OF HEAVEN and like Hillary, I thought it was one of the most beautifully photographed movie I ever saw along with films like BARRY LYNDON (19750 and JIGOKU MON (Gate of Hell - 1953). I saw the movie at the Royal Theatre in Waikiki and although it was a 70mm house, I saw the movie in 35mm. The new Criterion Blu-Ray should have an image quality comparable to the 70mm and I will get the movie very soon through my Blockbuster membersp. I will have to be very honest about DAYS OF HEAVEN and other films by Terrence Melick. Although they may be beautifully photographed, they can be very boring.

-Claude

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-27-2010 07:40 PM

quote: Hillary Charles
And the Ennio Morricone score is haunting. It seems to crop up all the time. Lately, I heard this title music in some commercial.

Of course, that title music was from the Saint-Saens suite CARNIVAL OF THE ANIMALS (no. 7, Aquarium).

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-28-2010 10:03 AM

I saw "Days of Heaven" in 70MM at the Village Theatre in Westwood in Jan of 1979. It was a outstanding presentation theatre in the before THX days there. [thumbsup]

For the Bruin Theatre "Days of Heaven" was there second 70MM engagement since they installed the Norelco's from the old Fox Carthay Circle Theatre. Their first 70MM in the thetare was "Capricorn One".

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Hillary Charles
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 748
From: York, PA, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-28-2010 11:10 AM

quote: Paul Linfesty
Of course, that title music was from the Saint-Saens suite CARNIVAL OF THE ANIMALS (no. 7, Aquarium).

D'oh! Show's how culturally illiterate I am! [Confused]

Thanks for the clarification, Paul. If I ever knew that before, I've certainly forgotten it and now only associate it with "Days of Heaven."

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