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Author Topic: DTS master audio is now the standard? Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-10-2010 09:42 AM                     No...the least common denominator format is always an AC3 form of Dolby digital so fear not. Believe it or not, the HDMI standard is such that it only outputs what it is asked for! So, if nothing asks for AC3...it does not output it...if that is what is asked for...it will have it. Most players have optical and/or coax digital audio outputs...they can always be used. Steve  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 11-10-2010 12:00 PM                        I believe you can find Blu Ray discs where the feature has *only* a DTS-HD MA track (no AC3) for the feature. This sounds scary until you remember that the Blu Ray standard requires that a Blu Ray player be able to decode at least the core DTS track. So at worst you'll get a decoded DTS lossy core sent out over the HDMI, or if you don't have HDMI mixed down to stereo and sent out the RCA jacks. Bobby - on the licensing question, at least for DTS you don't have to pay even to use the logos on the disc packaging. I believe they do require that you register the title in question with them, so they can add to their database of content with DTS tracks included.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-10-2010 02:59 PM                     I think the "core" audio does indeed come out of the optical/coax outputs. One is never required to use the analog outputs (lacking HDMI).  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 11-10-2010 03:14 PM                        Steve's right. The analog outputs come into play in a very specific circumstance, in which a user has no DTS decoder in their receiver and there is no AC3 track on the disc.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-10-2010 03:31 PM                     The DVD-V format had backward compatibility requirements of either Dolby AC-3 or Linear PCM. DTS was an alternative format. On Blu-ray, DTS decoding support in hardware is required (in addition to mandatory hardware support for Dolby Digital and LPCM). All Blu-ray players must be able to decode and output at the very least the DTS backward compatible core track if not offer full decoding various output options for the DTS-HD formats. Some Blu-ray players have analog line outs for 5.1 and 7.1 connections. A lot of movies on Blu-ray feature the primary track only in DTS audio formats. A few even have all the supplemental tracks encoded in DTS.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-10-2010 06:46 PM                     My media player will not output DTS, so when I play RHPS I will have to play it off the disc through a BluRay player as there is no 5.1 Dolby track. Sucky. Blu Rays should have 5.1 tracks for both formats.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 11-10-2010 07:33 PM                        Just get a less-shitty Blu-ray player that has line outs for each channel. You get what you pay for. Not sure what your media player is, but it clearly sucks.  |  IP: Logged Tom Petrov Five Guys Lover Posts: 1121 From: El Paso, TX Registered: Jan 2003 posted 11-10-2010 11:20 PM                    quote: John Wilson when I play RHPS What is RHPS?  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-10-2010 11:43 PM                     Some of the Blu-ray playback setups used by personal computer manufacturers need very serious improvement in a few areas -proper DTS support being one of them. But this is nothing new. Computer companies have had a decade of practice goofing up computer-based DVD playback. Why ruin an emerging tradition? Most new computers (regardless of desktop, notebook, netbook, tablet, etc. form factor) have no real sound card installed. Instead, they typically have a cheap chip integrated into the motherboard with good enough to get by function. When such computers also come equipped with a BD burner or BD/DVD combo drive you run into trouble on the playback end with sound. DTS often isn't supported and chances are good none of the high bitrate (24/96) modes in any format are supported either. So, if you buy a computer with Blu-ray playback capability you have to make sure the stupid thing has a sound card with up to date functions AND proper compatibility with the BD drive. Since personal computers have to use software-based players to run Blu-ray movies the software often has to be frequently updated. One of the computers in my office has a BD burner. I swear, every time I put a Blu-ray based movie in that thing it has to download some update weighing 20MB-50MB before the disc will play. That sucks. Maybe this is one reason why Apple doesn't want to do anything with Blu-ray. I really think it has more to do with money and politics. But the "PITA" factor for users is a legit concern. I'm glad I have my Playstation 3.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 11-11-2010 01:05 AM                        I don't understand why any computer with a digital output can't output DTS. I can take a DTS-encoded CD, put it in my Mac, open the disc image and literally drag a track to the desktop (which copies it), double click on the file (which Quicktime thinks is a stereo 44.1 16-bit AIFF file), click play and the full 6-track DTS audio is output via my optical connection to my receiver, everything intact. All John's media player needs to do is to output the lossy core stream through his optical output and there ya have it... 6 track DTS audio on RHPS. It would probably take less than 10 minutes for the developer to code. It's the developer who fails, not the Blu-ray format. He should write a letter.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-11-2010 12:45 PM                     I agree. Unfortunately, too often various software engineers and bean counters insist on goofing up the works just do something their own way rather than developing the product from the customer/user's point of view. To complicate matters further most pieces of computer hardware and software are developed in multiple countries -so language and culture barriers add even more chances to goof up the product. This is a widespread problem on the PC platform and a fundamental reason why Apple seems to have such an easy time selling its products. Apple is one of the few computer/electronics companies out there that makes at least some effort to design products from the customer's point of view. If only Steve Jobs could get over a couple issues (negative stances on Blu-ray, Adobe, etc.) Apple would be kicking even more ass. To get into the nuts and bolts thing with DTS on Windows PCs, integrated motherboard sound chips sometimes won't support decoding or output of any DTS audio format. Further, they'll sometimes monkey around with a Linear PCM bit stream (adding in DSP effects and other bullshit) and that totally corrupts audio output from a DTS encoded music CD. I have a few DTS encoded music CDs that I would like to rip to an external hard drive and play back from there, but Windows Media Player and Nero both won't rip the tracks correctly. DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD obviously add even more compatibility issues in computer-based playback. The computer's sound card can be a major stumbling block for computer-connected surround speakers. And then the software Blu-ray player may have serious limitations on what it can output via HDMI to a real home theater setup. This is probably yet another area where it's better to build your own PC with hand-picked components rather than buy a brand name system.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 11-11-2010 02:17 PM                        If you want to properly rip a DTS audio CD, find someone with a Mac or go into an Apple store with the CD and a USB flash drive with lots of space. Plug in the flash drive and wait for it to mount on the desktop. Create a new folder by right clicking the mouse (first option). Insert the CD, quit iTunes or any of that bullshit if it starts up. Double click on the CD itself which should be on the desktop. Drag the tracks of the songs you want to the folder you created. Drag the folder to the flash drive. Eject the drive by dragging it to the trash. Delete the folder and empty the trash. Go home and copy the folder over to your PC. The files will be AIF format but that shouldn't be a problem. You can even transcode to WAV and all of the data will remain intact (granted, I've only ever transcoded audio formats with Quicktime so be sure to use that). Hell, you could probably just change the extension from AIF to WAV and it'd work.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-11-2010 04:10 PM                     I'll have to try out that method if I get the chance. Ultimately, I'd like the audio tracks from the DTS CDs to be playable from an external hard disc drive. The CDs would have a proper back-up and I wouldn't have to screw around with swapping discs when playing the music on my surround setup. One of the big problems is various media organizing apps (like Windows Media Player) insert extra data to the WAV files in order to add track names, album cover art, etc. whenever you want to play any of the music on that hard disc from your computer. That extra stuff either corrupts the entire track or at least prevents the decoder from properly identifying the song as being DTS encoded. DTS encoded CDs aren't very common, but at least several dozen titles have been released. It would only make sense for the various software/hardware companies to understand the need of including the compatibility.  |  IP: Logged

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