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Topic: Megasystem?

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-08-2001 12:43 PM

This discussion of various large formats brings to mind the saying "Different horses, for different courses".

A well-designed and maintained 8-perf 70mm system should be able to display fine image quality, but not as large as 15-perf 70mm. Whether it's film format size or the size of the image file, "Size DOES Matter".

Most agree that brand recognition IS important too. Theatres should be careful not to misrepresent the format they are showing, or the type of equipment they are using.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-08-2001 01:25 PM

Steve,
I guess the problem is that they seem to be building "want-to-be" Imax theatres and they should have been 15/70 in the first place. All the theatres here have screens as big or bigger than some Imax theatres have. 60 by 80 feet(matte white)is simply beyond the capabilities of 8/70, at least they way it's installed here. A large problem is that none of the installations(at least that I've been to) are making use of gain type screens. The matte white screens being used simply cannot be lit bright enough, even with a 10K. I am aware of the Schneider lenses and other lenses developed for the format but they still do not come close to what Leitz created for Imax. Some of it might be just a difference between mass produced(Schneider) and not(Leitz). IMHO if an 8/70 theatre is even attempting to do an image of the Imax scale it will eventually klead to giving large format a bad name in General. I am aware of the versatility of the Kinoton but so far the best image I have seen is from the Iwerks Linear Loop machine here at the Dino Museum. The best thing though about the Kinoton is that you are not tied for life to one of the Large Format companies and the Kinoton equipment works very well. It would be my second choice for 8/70, the linear loop being first. As far as I'm concerned there is nothing else anywhere near as good as these two.
Mark Gulbrandsen
Salt Lake City, UT
John P.,
You are right on advertising sometimes being mis-leading. There is one 8/70 theatre here in SLC that regularly advertised "Filmed In Imax", or "Shot In Imax" right in their ads. While its not entirely mis-leading it really should not be in the ad. Those unknowing are sometimes led to believe that its also being presented in the Imax format as well. Boy, are they in for a big disappointment!
Mark @ GTS

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 10-08-2001 04:44 PM

Mark, I think we are in argeement here. I wouldn't recommend putting in an IMAX sized screen for a plex....but if they put in their typical wide screen (2.39:1) and when running large format, had the top/bottom masking pull away to reveal the full 4:3 screen...it should look quite good.

As to the Schneider 8/70 lenses, I wouldn't classify them as "mass-produced"...They are probably fewer in number than IMAX (per year or otherwise). In fact, one often has to wait to get them...they only make a few per year and they won't "crank em out" just because there is a surge of purchases. One of the things I noticed on the one I tried was that they kept the image away from the edges of the lens...it just had a stunning look. Oh, and don't try to use 42.5mm lens in a Norelco DP-70 (for 5/70)...the picture won't get out of the projector! The front lens element is about 7" from the aperture on an 85' throw.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 10-09-2001 03:07 PM

BTW it works with 40 mm lens on the Norelco. ... All to do to cut the gearbox, seal with plastic, linnen and resin, and tamper the lensholder, and dump the front door.
Actually done on a AA II I still keep, to use in theme park applications. I took it, because the 35 mm sprockets were still brand new.
A photo ( I now own a digital camera) to follow.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 10-09-2001 04:40 PM

Well if you cut the projector casting and modify the focus rack and such, the 42.5mm lens would work too, I'm sure but...Jeeze You are talking about some severe modifications (cutting into the gear case).

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Larry Shaw
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 238
From: Boston, MA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 10-11-2001 08:22 PM

Should anyone want a peek at it, here's a link to our MP-75E page:
http://www.blsi.com/kinoton/mp75e.htm

-Larry

------------------
Larry Shaw
Boston Light & Sound, Inc.
North American Distributor of Kinoton GmbH
290 North Beacon Street
Boston, MA 02135-1990
Tel: 617-787-3131 x104 Fax: 617-787-4257
E-Mail: larry@blsi.com
Web site: http://www.blsi.com/kinoton

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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 10-12-2001 06:21 AM

Go, and look for the Kinotone MP75E. I love it, and I think it is among the best large venue projector built nowadays.

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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 10-12-2001 07:17 AM

The description for the mp75e says it is "Available in GigaVision and SpectaVision packages". I assume these a special venue formats. Can anyone explain what these are?

Mark Lensenmayer

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-12-2001 02:00 PM

I agree with Stefan on it being the best choice. The best part is that you are not "stuck" relying on any of the large format companies, or pying large excruciating sums of money and relying on them to come service some exotic type of projector. The Kinoton stuff is all easily serviced by any qualified service personel. It saves you time and money. I also have yet to see a decent 8/70 installation by any of the large format companies, or equipment that really functions as advertised. There is always this or that lacking somewhere. I've used the Kinoton stuff and can vouch for its quality and the fact that it DOES WORK as advertised!
Mark @ GTS

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Larry Shaw
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 238
From: Boston, MA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 10-12-2001 06:34 PM

Sorry for the missing link. There's information on GigaVision and SpectaVision at http://www.blsi.com/kinoton/giga.htm

They are turn-key packages based around the Kinoton XX-75E projectors.

-Larry

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