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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Large Format Forum   » IMAX Theaters to Ditch Film, Use Digital DLP Projectors (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: IMAX Theaters to Ditch Film, Use Digital DLP Projectors
Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-17-2008 08:05 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This sounds like a bad idea, but I haven't seen an MPX (or SR, actually) setup, so I don't really have a sense of the screen size. I can imagine that 2x 2k DLP units might work OK on a 70' or so screen (too big for 35mm, but good for 5/70). I will reserve judgment on this until I see it, but it doesn't sound like an improvement.

To me (and most consumers, probably), Imax doesn't mean 15/70 so much as it means "biggest screen" and "best sound." The problem that I can see is that Imax screens keep getting smaller and the company risks diluting its brand image. They need to somehow make the distinction between the GT houses and the MPX houses. Maybe call the MPX setup "Imax Lite" or "Imax Express" or call the GT houses "Super-Hyper-Mega-Ultra Imax" or something like that. Otherwise, consumers won't know the difference and risk being disappointed if they aren't familiar with the smaller screens.

Question for those familiar with MPX installations: is the MPX sound system of the same quality as the GT system?

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 03-17-2008 02:12 PM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Back in the 1950's, there was a company called Cinerama that showed their travelog/slice of life films in special theatres on huge Cinerama screens. Then, in the early 1960's, they struck a deal with MGM to produce general entertainment films. In 1964, they produced their most sucessful film, How The West Was Won. Not wanting to risk damaging one of the two 1200 pound Cinerama cameras while filming the raft sequence, they shot it in 70mm and optically printed it onto the 3 rolls of 35mm in the lab. While those scenes clearly did not look as sharp as the rest of the film, the management felt that it was good enough. In fact, they felt it saved them so much money that all subsequent Cinerama films were shot that way. Three years later, they were out of business.

The point is, the public does not complain. They just stop coming, and once you lose your reputation, it is very hard to get it back.

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Brian Michael Weidemann
Expert cat molester

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From: Costa Mesa, CA United States
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted 03-18-2008 05:17 AM      Profile for Brian Michael Weidemann   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Michael Weidemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's an eloquent example.

Something like IMAX didn't come about because someone was trying to save money. IMAX emerged from the will to create something bigger, better; something incredible, just for its own sake. As a business, sure, costs are important. But invention is about seeing what's possible and near impossible, and achieving it anyway. They didn't have to set their sights so big in the first place, but they did.

And now the corporate bottom-liners are signing the deals. That original "vision" is lost.

Are audiences, is the public, REALLY voicing their desire to see digital projection? Most of them think the industry went all digital 15 years ago, oblivious to the fact that we're still splicing prints together. They pay to see a movie. I've seen audiences sit through emulsion scratches and muffled analog sound and STILL applaud at the end, leaving having loved the movie. I've seen audiences experience the cleanest, most perfect presentation and still demand their money back. I don't think the projection industry is really about the audience, it never was. (The concession industry, sure.) Our job is to give the best presentation for its own sake, because we care about doing our best.

Sorry, just ranting here. [Big Grin] If digital was actually superior, I'd think differently. We all just want FILM film to last a bit longer.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

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From: Music City
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 - posted 03-19-2008 08:19 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is certainly old news and AMC has already signed for umpteen IMAX Digital systems. IMAX are just using 2 stacked Christie CP-2000s's with custom optics and a GDC server. Screen size will however be limited to just under 60 feet wide, those that have seen digital onm a 60 to 70 foot wide screen know what sort of image they can expect and its not too bad. IMHO IMAX has delt their own death blow. Anyone can buy two DLP projectors to put together a large format system and then do their own large format production on the cheap. There already exists a 1:1 fixed focal length lens of high enough quality that anyone can throw an image that size... 78 feet wide in fact from 65 feet away! Christie also already has available the "Stacking Frame" and most of the other stuff needed to replace your money hungry/profit gulping 15/70 system. 2-projector 3D and if Dolby gets their 2-projector act together 2 projector Dolby Digital 3-D could also happen. It will certainly be a boon for museums and other smaller entities whose Imax contracts are eating them alive.

Brian... The audience of this day and age has been large format de-sensitized!! Most of the IMAX audience is children... they don't kow digital from large format from super 8. Audiences of today are in a state of mind where they "just want to see it"... It doesn't matter how its delivered to them anymore.

Mark

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Brian Michael Weidemann
Expert cat molester

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From: Costa Mesa, CA United States
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 - posted 03-19-2008 09:35 PM      Profile for Brian Michael Weidemann   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Michael Weidemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree. That makes the IMAX position of "we want to give the audience the best possible" seem thin and false.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

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From: New Castle, DE, USA
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 - posted 03-20-2008 07:10 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sooo... if the choices for the movie I want to see are:

$10 for the 35mm version
$12 for the DLP version
$16 for the IMAX DLP version (and travel 30 miles to see it)

I know which one I'm seeing.

Sorry, IMAX.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 03-20-2008 10:31 AM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
In 1964, they produced their most sucessful film, How The West Was Won. Not wanting to risk damaging one of the two 1200 pound Cinerama cameras while filming the raft sequence, they shot it in 70mm and optically printed it onto the 3 rolls of 35mm in the lab. While those scenes clearly did not look as sharp as the rest of the film, the management felt that it was good enough. In fact, they felt it saved them so much money that all subsequent Cinerama films were shot that way. Three years later, they were out of business.

The point is, the public does not complain. They just stop coming, and once you lose your reputation, it is very hard to get it back.

I agree with this sentiment, but I also think it extends to non-IMAX theaters as well.

Movie theaters used to have ambience in spades. Check out Cinema Treasures to see lots of examples. The movie-going experience was magical, from the time you walked up to the theater with its neon-covered marquee and custom signage created for the movie being played, to the ornate lobby, to the huge auditorium that was decorated to the nines with a large screen covered by red velvet curtains.

Then, the screen was twinned and the curtain was gone. The atmospheric ceiling was covered by ceiling tiles to save on heat. Then the lobby got remodeled to add a larger concession stand and to cover up the water damage when the upstairs toilets leaked. The sign outside got replaced with the standard cookie cutter marquee common for that chain.

Element by element, the magic was gone. Small wonder that audiences continue to get smaller and smaller every year!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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 - posted 03-20-2008 01:28 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Certain companies are trying to bring back the ambiance of old movie palaces. But they are too few in number. Warren Theaters is about to open a new 14-plex in Moore, OK about an hour's drive away from Lawton. That new site has ambiance laid on thick.

Back to IMAX, I think the company really set itself up for doom by going forward with the whole DMR 35mm blow-up thing. Most movies playing at IMAX-branded theaters are DMR blow-ups, not anything shot in native 15/70 format. The quality of the product was badly watered down. It was really insulting to the 15/70 format to see HD video blown up to it. With such low standards as that, why even bother at all?

Moving to a system that utilizes a pair of 2K projectors is a major step down from a true 15/65mm-15/70mm giant format system. A pair of 2K projectors still only gives you half the number of pixels of the 4K format.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Music City
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 - posted 03-20-2008 04:35 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
A pair of 2K projectors still only gives you half the number of pixels of the 4K format.

I have not done the math but even 4K is probably around 1/12th the resolution of true 15/70 IMAX.... alas the de-sensitized audiences of today could care less.

Mark

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Stephen Furley
Film God

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From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
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 - posted 03-21-2008 02:46 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Brian... The audience of this day and age has been large format de-sensitized!! Most of the IMAX audience is children... they don't kow digital from large format from super 8. Audiences of today are in a state of mind where they "just want to see it"... It doesn't matter how its delivered to them anymore.

I think that, at least to some extent, you are correct. The chosen moving image presentation technology for many young people today seems to be the mobile 'phone screen, or if they want something bigger, an iPod or not much bigger than IMAX frame sized window on a computer screen. The mobile 'phone also seems to be he chosen method of listening to music.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 03-21-2008 01:33 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe they've licensed the 7K (7680x4320) UHDV system that Japan's NHK developed for the large-format venues that have been IMAX's niche. On a smaller MPX-size screen it looks pretty good for video, but of course it doesn't hold a candle to 1570 film.

My impressions of the 2006 NAB UHDV demo from another thread here

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 03-21-2008 01:37 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't know where these double posts come from, but this one is history.

[ 03-21-2008, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 03-21-2008 02:38 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oklahoma City has an Omni Theater, you know big 70MM with the picture projected on to the inside of a dome. However, it seems to me they are showing Imax movies in it. Since they aren't shot for the super curve they are more than a little distorted. If you just focus on the center of the screen it doesn't seem so bad but if you start to do a turtle head and try to look around at the picture the distortion is horrid. Do they make Omni film format anymore or are they a not Imax, Imax? The formats are actually different Omni uses more perf's or something.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

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From: New Castle, DE, USA
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 - posted 03-21-2008 11:11 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The image on OMNI-MAX film has a fish eye lens look to it. Somewhere on here, someone posted two frames side by side so you can see the difference between the regular IMAX frame and the "Dome" frame. DMR'd movies aren't prepared with the "Dome" frame, which is why they look distorted.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 03-21-2008 11:29 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark exactly correct when Omni made films there corrected for the fish eye effect (or filmed for it actually). I don't think that Omni is actually in existence anymore it like when the Cinerama's became the Coopers!

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