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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Author
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Topic: Giant screen aspect ratios in the future
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 01-23-2012 10:38 PM
With any 15/70 IMAX presentation, yes, there is an impressive feeling of being enveloped and immersed in the image, BUT that is because of the extreme 80ft width of the IMAX image, it's not because it's 4:3 ar. The immersive feeling is derived from filling the peripheral vision, and to do that you need basically a 2:1 screen big enough. Can anyone say CINERAMA -- one of the best immersive process to date and they did it with a 3:1ish ar.
In all original IMAX films, there was care to insure that primary action stayed pretty much within the natural human 2:1 field of vision. Sure there was height, but objects of importance were composed centrally so a viewer was rarely confronted with the issue of having to choose between important object placed at desperate positions top and bottom of the screen.
Those films were shot and composed SPECIFICALLY for the IMAX screen. Hollywood films are not. Unless one can envision a scenario where Hollywood will compose two different versions of a release, one for scope and one for the original IMAX academy-ish ratio, IMAX is doing the only thing it can do now that they realized that doing IMAX documentaries would put all their upper management in the poor house -- they are converting all their theatres to standard scope ratio screens, albeit somewhat bigger than average, but nothing to right home about. Now they have to figure out how in hell to make a SCOPE ratio screen bigger than conventional screens and still make it look good....and trying to do it with 2K digital, no less. Good luck with that dog poo.
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-28-2012 07:29 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
This reminds me of all those "7.1" receivers from years ago, even before DD-EX & DTS-ES, that were really nothing more than 5.1 receivers summing the stereo surrounds to more speaker outputs. I remember seeing one Yamaha receiver that was something like 11.2 channels. That might be good if the receiver was handling two different 5.1 audio streams and feeding them into two different rooms. Otherwise it's a freaking waste because no movie mixes are made in any more than 7.1 channels. The vast majority are only 5.1.
Bobby,
You might be thinking of the Yamaha RX-Z11, which was introduced in 2007 and had 11.1 channels. Pre-lossless audio, the RX-Z1 was 7.1 channels and released in 2002.
Even though those receivers had more channels of output than the source material could provide, Yamaha has always been known for its signal processing, and those extra channels were used by the DSP's to create a larger soundfield. Whether the DSP effects were effective or not was a subjective opinion. The current top-of-the-line Yamaha RX-A3010 is a 9.2 channel receiver, so they've backed off on the number of distinct channels they're offering. (The extra two channels are front-height channels)
Simply repeating the outputs would be lame, I agree. However, doing some optional processing to achieve additional effects is fine in my book. If the extra channels give the marketing guys warm feelings, everyone wins.
As far as theater sound goes, if extra channels help to fill in any holes that there might be in the soundfield, that's great. If those extra speakers can then be used for additional distinct channels if the studios ever use them, what's the harm?
Back to the topic at hand, the DIGSS 1.0 spec lists the following aspect ratios:
4096 x 1716 2.39
3996 x 2160 1.85
4096 x 3072 1.33
2048 858 2.39
1998 1080 1.85
2048 x 1536 1.33
So that tells me that they're still looking to support 1.33:1. I think it makes sense to have a 1.33:1 screen, as it provides the most flexibility, and unlike traditional theatrical screens, the top and bottom masking that would be necessary would not be impacting the size of the content. 1:33:1 IMAX and giant-screen movies were intended to be shown on such "over-tall" screens for the reasons mentioned in earlier posts (2:1 protection area, with the extra vertical area for impact).
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 04-04-2012 03:53 PM
quote: Brad Miller
There are other discussions on this. It makes the image look like 1980s video. Sure the resolution is there and it is sharp with great optics on the cameras, etc...but the motion makes me feel like I am watching cheap 1980's sitcoms on tv.
Sorry, I didn't really follow any recent discussions about this.
I guess most sitcoms were shot on video at 60 or 50 fields/second rather than 35mm, because of budget constrains. There always was a lot of light in the studio resulting in fairly high shutter rates. So there was not very much motion blur in those images.
Filming in 48fps or more is still quite rare, so cinematographers still have a lot to figure out. Also, I guess after all those years watching movies at 24 fps our mind might have been subconsciously trained on how a motion picture should look like.
Still, I think a higher frame rate will give cinematographers a powerful tool, that, if applied correctly, can also greatly enhance our movie experience.
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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler
Posts: 268
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008
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posted 01-22-2013 04:59 AM
Resurrecting another old thread… (I don’t know if this should be moved to the digital forum though - the whole thread was always about ”the future” and the future is digital as we know.)
It seems that we already have a working implementation of the DIGSS specification, complete with a 4K × 3K resolution: Global Immersion’s GSX™ giant screen projection system was installed last autumn in the Peoria Riverfront museum in Illinois. I'm attaching the full press release below; some musings follow after that.
quote:
Global Immersion GSX Digital Giant Screen Cinema to Premiere at Peoria Riverfront Museum
September 26, 2012
Global Immersion, a leader in the field of high performance immersive theater, has confirmed the premičre of the world’s highest performance and most versatile digital Giant Screen Cinema system, GSX™. On October 20, 2012, the new Peoria Riverfront Museum (PRM), Illinois, USA, will open to the public with the first GSX giant flat screen theater. The facility will become the highest resolution digital Giant Screen Cinema in the world capable of 2D and 3D presentations and will be the only theater to offer multiple, automated aspect ratio modes including 4:3 at 4K by 3K resolution.
Since being approved in 2001, the PRM project in Peoria, Illinois, has worked to clearly defined objectives to become a cultural center for art, history, science and achievement through the application of pioneering design, technology and innovation.
Following contract award in 2010, Global Immersion has collaborated with PRM and its team of technology and consultancy partners to develop the state-of-the-art theater which will launch next month. The new theater system is now available as part of Global Immersion’s GSX series of digital Giant Screen Cinema systems, each designed for the emerging Digital Immersive Giant Screen Specification (DIGSS), promising unrivaled performance and unrestricted content capability.
Product of an ambitious and visionary approach.
The PRM theater, powered by GSX, will feature a 70 x 52 feet / 21.3 x 15.8 meter screen, 200 seats, and a range of features unique to GSX that will enable the museum to play an unrestricted range of content including traditional giant screen films, streamed, alternative, live and online media in multiple aspect ratios and file formats (including Digital Cinema Initiative [DCI]-encrypted films). The system is capable of playing content at up to 60 frames per second and in 12-bit color depth.
Speaking about the project, and the unique capabilities of the new system, Martin Howe, CEO at Global Immersion commented, ‘We are incredibly proud to be delivering the first GSX to such a visionary team of museum and technology professionals. Since the beginning, we have worked diligently to evaluate the best possible technology choices and partners, and to set ambitious goals for our digital Giant Screen Cinema system in order to provide a high performance platform that rivals and even outperforms the quality of film and yet offers the broadest possible range of content for the Giant Screen Cinema world.”
Jim Richerson, President and CEO of Peoria Riverfront Museum says, from the beginning the Museum has been focused on creativity and innovation. “Clearly Global Immersion's GSX system delivers that and more. With this system Global Immersion delivers several industry firsts and this will most certainly ‘Play in Peoria’! Key to serving our mission and bottom-line is a system like GSX that is flexible in programming and technologically upgradeable.”
Exceptional brightness and versatility with exclusive features.
Global Immersion formally announced the GSX™ digital Giant Screen cinema product line in March this year. The GSX range of theater systems comprises GSX for flat or curved Giant Screen theaters, GSX Dome™ for in-dome Giant Screen insert display systems, and GSX Fulldome™ for digital Giant Screen fulldome theaters. Each of the GSX systems is available in both 2D and 3D configurations and is designed to exceed the performance of traditional Giant Screen film projection.
The GSX theater system at the Peoria Riverfront Museum will deliver up to 6 foot-lamberts (ftL.) of brightness in Giant Screen 3D mode in 4:3 aspect ratio; a 3D image at least twice as bright when compared to alternative Giant Screen Cinema systems.
Fully DCI-compliant and designed for DIGSS, GSX uses a dual projector design to achieve True 4:3™; a feature which projects 4,000 by 3,000 pixels in 4:3 aspect ratio to deliver 12 million unique pixels on screen. The product is the only digital Giant Screen Cinema system in the market today to project 4K by 3K resolution, and does not use ‘over-projection’ or ‘masking’ techniques to achieve 4:3.
The system is the only digital Giant Screen Cinema solution available offering automated multiple aspect ratios at the push of a button, including True 4:3™; enabling theaters to rapidly switch between 16:9, 1.85:1, 1,89:1, 2.39:1, and True 4:3™ modes on demand without loss of resolution or brightness.
“We have created an industry-leading solution which addresses the demand for ultra-bright Giant Screen 3D, and will expand the content library available to Giant Screen theaters,” concludes Howe. “Not only does GSX set new standards for digital Giant Screen Cinema, but it goes beyond the expected and allows theaters to choose, see and experience more than ever before.”
So it looks like they went with a dual format system to support both DCI and DIGSS content. According to my information, they have two 4K DCI projectors fed by both a Qube DCI server and Global Immersion’s DIGSS server. The latter can run a variety of content, including 4K × 3K.
They proudly claim that they don’t use ”’over-projection’ or ‘masking’ techniques to achieve 4:3”. I wonder what that means exactly – are they just tiling two 4K images on top of each other? Technically that would still be over-projection or masking, since you’re only using 1536 vertical pixels from both projectors instead of the full 2160. Unless they’re using anamorphic lenses on both projectors, but that would make an awfully complicated optical system since they’re also using RealD XL (or something similar).
Anyone more familiar with this one?
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