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Author Topic: Sony about to release new cinema projector Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-10-2007 03:31 PM                        If they ever develop glass-less 3D for home video, that will be the death of theatres with 3D digital projectors, at least for the 3D releases. Fact is, as much as they have tried, no one in over 50 years ever come up with a way to get two images projected on a movie screen so that one eye sees the image meant for it and the other eye sees its image. Only the Russians had a system that ultimately was a failure -- a screen system that, from how I heard it explained, could deflect the two different images in two slightly different directions -- problem was, you had to get your head properly positioned to actually see the images in 3D and if you moved at all any time during the show, you were screwed. So if there ever was a 3D system that didn't require wearing glasses for the home theatre market -- theatre's with 3D capability can kiss goodbye to anyone wanting to run out to the theatre to see a 3D movie when all they will have to do was wait for it to be released on high def, 3D DVD where they can see it without having to wear any glasses at home. And you can be sure the studios will not be holding off releasing it to the home lickity split. They won't be holding off to "protect" the 3D digital theatre owners. Exhibitors who took out second mortgages to install 3D servers and hardward had better hope that home 3D without glasses never becomes a reality. I think in the years since the dominance of video in the home and especially now where the profit from DVD sales keeps exceeding ticket sales every year, for the studios, the importance for the theatrical market beyond being the drive behind DVD sales is marginalized. And the studios are perfectly happy with this model.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-10-2007 04:11 PM                     quote: Rory Burke but I still sit happily watching a new print being shown with a new bulb on a 3 bladed shutter at a local theater. No you don't. No commercial theater uses 3 bladed shutters.  |  IP: Logged Ramon Lamarca Marques Expert Film Handler Posts: 186 From: Edgware, England, UK Registered: Feb 2006 posted 06-10-2007 04:51 PM                     quote: If they ever develop glass-less 3D for home video, that will be the death of theatres with 3D digital projectors, Have a look at this Frank: http://www.business-sites.philips.com/3dsolutions/Why3D/Index.html As it has been said endlessly in this forum, to bring 2k projectors has been a great waste of money for theatres, it brings nothing new to attract patrons and with new things like Philips 3-D TV coming soon, who is going to be interested in the 2k projection at the multiplex? Someone should be held accountable for the 2k stupidity. I personally think theatres should embrace the wide angles provided by systems like Dimension 150 or Todd-AO in large curved screens. Whoever has seen How The West Was Won in Cinerama (albeit its imperfections) or any Todd-AO production will know what I mean, you can't get that in your living room. I also think that film has a beautiful texture digital does not have, but this is a very personal taste. As you said, if 3-D without glasses arrives soon, goodbye to all those screens which have installed 3-D with glasses.  |  IP: Logged Rory Burke Expert Film Handler Posts: 181 From: Burbank, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2000 posted 06-10-2007 05:15 PM                     Brad said: No you don't. No commercial theater uses 3 bladed shutters. Never say Never!! There is one theater in the Inland Empire California that I personally installed a 3 bladed shutter over ten years ago. It is theater 8 at CinemaStar in Perris, California. I dont know if other theaters do it as a practice and I never came across one and I too highly doubt there are more. However, is there a theater with it available to paying customers???... OH YES!!! And thats where I go to watch my movies. Its only ten minutes away just like I planned it long ago... mainly for MY viewing pleasure. Good luck!  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-10-2007 09:48 PM                     They must have huge lamps and super small screens then. Either that or a crappy dim picture. That's just the nature of a 3 bladed beast.  |  IP: Logged Rory Burke Expert Film Handler Posts: 181 From: Burbank, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2000 posted 06-11-2007 12:07 AM                     Brad said: They must have huge lamps and super small screens then. Either that or a crappy dim picture. That's just the nature of a 3 bladed beast. Or it could have good illumination on a descent sized screen regardless of the light that gets eaten up by the 3 bladed shutter. Happy endings are possible.  |  IP: Logged Cameron Glendinning Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 845 From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 06-12-2007 03:01 AM                     quote: Happy endings are possible. [beer] yes but usually only at massage parlours!! My own 3 blade shutter story was at Plantet Hollywood in Sydney where I got great pleasure from getting them removed from its 64 seat, state of the art, 2 projector screening room! The extra light impressed everyone, including film reviewers, distributers to resturant management! Im sure they are worthwhile in screening rooms with a throw of less than 50 ft, Sydneys planet hollywood was bigger than that. [ 06-12-2007, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: Cameron Glendinning ]  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-12-2007 04:22 AM                     With apologies to Tina Turner: What's throw got to do, got to do with it? What's throw but a second hand dimension? What's throw got to do, got to do with it? Who needs a length when a lens can be longer? Available light on-screen for a given light source is a function of the area of the screen and the screen's gain, but not of the throw. The throw and the lens are independent of the area. P.S.: I hear that TI is indeed working on a 4K projector for cinema use. No time-to-market info --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Cameron Glendinning Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 845 From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 06-12-2007 05:08 AM                     John, um three blade shutters are used to reduce flicker in very small screening rooms ect or so they told planet hollywood. I have never actually come across a 3 blade in a commercial cinema. In my planet hollywood screening room case there was no noticable flicker when we converted to the regular 2 blade. Just lots more light! I hope TI are making a 2.39 ratio chip, fingers crossed for some common sense [ 06-12-2007, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: Cameron Glendinning ]  |  IP: Logged Amanda Mundin Expert Film Handler Posts: 122 From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK Registered: Sep 2005 posted 06-12-2007 12:48 PM                     Apparently Spiderman 3 has been screened in 4K in the UK, quote from an artical in 'Producer', a free magazine direct from Sony. "In the UK, the Odeon multiplex in Guildford screened the blockbuster for three weeks using the SRX-R220 digital cinema projector, working with an LMT-100 media block server." Anyone see any of these screenings?  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 06-19-2007 11:41 AM                        I'm probably going out on a limb in saying it, but 3-D is a gimmick. I'd like to talk to the decision maker at a theater who spends their money on a gimmick, and find out what they're thinking. The only way I could see it being justified is if every single other aspect of the theater's core operation was the best it could possibly be, and adding 3-D was something fun to add to the experience. Sadly, I've never been in a theater that couldn't use a few more bucks spent on some aspect of their operation to improve the overall movie-going experience for all their customers attending all their movies, not just the one or two 3-D movies per year. Maybe I just don't understand the business from the theater owner's perspective well enough...  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 06-20-2007 01:57 PM                     I agree that 3-D is still gimmicky . . . but we have not seen any live action release content yet. The justification to put 3-D in is that the 3-D shows tend to gross 30%+ than 2-D shows - the analysis I saw from Chicken Little 3-D showed that the increased concession sales/profit justified the expense . . . . . of course as more and more locations install 3-D this arguement starts to crumble. One of the developers of the Real-D system spoke at NAB and brought up the fact that sound on movies was originally intended to only replace the orchestra that played during movies - it was later that someone realized that dialog could be included and the modern movie was born . . . . his correlation was that 3-D is at that stage where it may take a different direction than originally intended, although what else can you do with it? I personally think live sports events will help show 3-D for it is really worth (if anything).  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 06-26-2007 10:49 AM                        The additional revenue can probably be tied more closely with the additional marketing that was put into the 3-D release than 3-D in particular. To some degree, people will come out to see 3-D as a novelty, but I can't imagine sitting through a full-length feature with those glasses on and dealing with the variable amount of 3-D effect. That's probably me just getting old, I guess. The revenue increases mentioned have been stated by organizations such as THX as well. In many cases, it's the marketing behind the effort, more than the effort itself that brings in the audiences. If you had a 10-screen theater, and you spent a certain amount of money on upgrades to two of those screens and put a label on that upgrade package (say, for example, "Super Screen" or "Premium Screen"), and you touted the upgrades and which movies were playing in the "Super Screen" I'll bet you'd have more attendance in the "Super Screen" than in a screen that wasn't given the upgrades or the marketing efforts. People respond to being marketed to, and will often do exactly what you want them to do if you have an effective marketing campaign. The flip side is that the marketing has to have some substance behind it, so the "Super Screen" really does need to be worthy of the moniker, or the marketing rings false, and you will have a tougher hill to climb the next time you try marketing something. Digital Cinema draws audiences because of the many marketing angles that can be used to promote it. What will keep the audiences coming back is if those presentations exceed the expectations of the audience. 3-D can be one item in a bag of tricks, but I don't think it can be the only trick. If I owned a theater, I would put my money into improving my presentations across the board, and marketing myself as having great presentations. If some other theater draws crowds with the one 3-D presentation a year, I will probably have made up the difference through the entire year, and then some. But maybe that's why I don't own a theater...  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 06-26-2007 11:16 AM                     I believe 3D will pass away again. Not because of technical flaws, but because making excellent 3D movies takes more patience, technical skill and compromise than most filmmakers and studios have today. With 3D, filmmakers have to think more about staging and directing, camera movement and editing, and the only people who are used to design pictures from scratch are the animation guys and a few Large Format filmmakers. All the "exciting" stylistic elements so beloved by modern filmmakers do not work well with 3D, like image degradation, shaky camera movement and superfast editing to conceal that you have very little actually exciting stuff to begin with. 3D is also less forgivable to bad screen acting. This is why I predict 3D at the movies will fade away again because it adds little to actual storytelling for the average film - maybe with the exception of animation.  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 06-26-2007 12:10 PM                     quote: John Hawkinson I hear that TI is indeed working on a 4K projector for cinema use Is this from a good source that might have some info on reality or a rumor? Also, are they working on a 4K "projector" or a 4k "chip"? A 4k projector can mean using 4-2k chips per color or doing some kind of wobulation with a 2k chip. quote: Cameron Glendinning I hope TI are making a 2.39 ratio chip, fingers crossed for some common sense The ship sailed long ago on that. DCI specs are based on a 1080x2048 (2k) and 2160x4096 (4k) chips.  |  IP: Logged

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