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Topic: Just saw SW3 in digital with Kodaks system. Wow!
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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 05-21-2005 06:36 PM
I love it! Someone compliments a filmless presentation and defensive panic ensues!
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Then its certainly a safe bet that none of the DLP presentations of a given production will look alike... nor will any two DLP projectors look alike for that matter. My experience with LCD projectors has shown that slight variations do exist fromom projector to projector. Having any internal adjustments that can be user effected is a strong dis- advantage. The calibration and adjustment is something that should be handled in digital protocal within the productions data. Otherwise there is no guarantee of seeing a presentation exactly how the cinematographer and director establishhed it.
Of course, film projection systems are user-adjustable, too. As a moviegoer, two of my pet peeves are misframing and overcropping/masking, for instance. There's also a widespread problem of screen underillumination which, as you know, will impact image fidelity.
So, please, let's not pretend that film presentations are uniform from one setup to the next. The truth is that in the real world, they vary wildly...even when identical systems are installed by the same person in the same multiplex.
I believe that any movie whose images were originated primarily or entirely with video should be seen in a video format if one wishes to experience that particular movie "done right."
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 05-22-2005 06:51 PM
Mark,
I think you are dead wrong on the color thing with DLP. Using LCD experiences is not at all the same thing. LCD projectors are notorious for not having true colors and suffer from color fading with time.
A DCinema projector, when installed is color calibrated on a color by color basis and as a function of white lite. This is done using a chromaticity meter so even the lens and screen surface are taken into account along with the lamp and reflector. At the moment, each DCinema feature comes with its color space file (and I hope they settle on one color space). As such, what you see on one of these systems IS what the film maker saw.
By contrast for film...no two reels are color matched the same. Don't believe me, talk to someone like Mr. Robert Harris. You can't get a lab to print the same way twice and we are talking about low production prints not just the high-volume release prints that are complete junk. Ever compare an EK print to a release print? I have...the difference is quite startling. You won't get that with DCinema
Do I think the resolution of DCinema is good enough yet? Nope, the pixels are still way too large but it certainly shows promise.
As far as getting two DCinema theatres to put out the same show, color wise, DCinema will win that battle every time over film.
Next time you are in Florida...head over to Universal Studios and check out the Shrek attraction. You have FOUR DLP projectors running a 3-D presentation (two projectors for each eye). You have edge blending that requires absolute color matching and alignment to avoid any seams. Then turundle over to Disney's Magic Kingdom and check out the "Philharmagic" performance running film...it is also quite exceptional but the seams are visible, unlike in Shrek (Philharmagic IS the better attraction though).
I recently did a demo for an Art gallery with a DCinema projector (Barco DP50). With the DLP projector, I could change color temperture at will. In fact, I measured an Extagraphic slide projector with a "bright light" module ...then dialed in the chromaticity numbers into the DLP and matched the color of the tungsten slide projector for an A/B comparison.
I still consider DCinema in the prototype stage but it is definately evolving. I'm curious about its advancement beyond 2K. 2K is good for and A/V and home medium since that is where broadcast is currently stepping off. It is not good enough for DCinema however. I wont be satisfied with DCinema technology until it rivals 70mm, the true state-of-the-art in film projection.
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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster
Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 05-22-2005 09:11 PM
Again Steve, the real issues are going to lay down the road a bit. Theatre owners that don't maintain equipment today are not going to maintain DLP systems either unless they literally go off the screen. The Carmikes will remain the Carmikes with piss poor presentation no matter how its shown. And while the projectors may be stable in the short term, they will be problematic in the long term as is all electronic gear. The real down the road problems will lie with the servers, they are sometimes a pain today, are not, and have not been stable. I think most of the repair work in the future will be server related but there will also be board changouts, and DLP chip arrays getting cooked because of failed cooling and exhasut systems. Normal maintainance if done will merely consist of cleaning filters, checking color balance, and changing lamps. If the theatres personel have any access to making even slight color balance changes as you mentioned then add that to the variables list.
At first your experiences with these systems may lead you to believe they will be stable overall but there is the adjustment issue and maintainance issue and if not followed those will allow changes to occur down the road a bit. Servers, well, thats another entire problem in itself and one that has probably stagnatesd D-Cinema to a larger degree than the projectors themselves.
Mark
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! All I was trying to say is that todays film problems will be replaced by as many or more other problems in D-Cinema and there will always be problems no matter what the exhibition form. I see just as many problems likely to happen down the road that will affect the overall quality of D-Cinema including color shifting over time to do reflector and screen aging. And Steve, Any video projector can be user adjusted so no matter how well calibrated a DLP is that is that still no guarantee of it being representative of what the DP and director wanted(what we ultimately see may be what the theatre manager or projectionist likes) while film can be consistantly representative of the directors and DP's wishes if the cinema is built and kept to SMPTE specs. They may personally visit several important D-Cinema sites and tweek it personally to guarantee its shown correctly just as do sound mixers do, but then the rest of us in mainstream U.S. are all back to the same variances we get with film. Film of course is greatly variable, although lots of dailies I've seen that were carefully done were very difficult to detect any slight color differences with the naked eye. All in all over time D-Cinema can offer no more consistancy or reliability guarantees than film and that is what I was getting at.
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