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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » First movie beamed in by satillite! (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: First movie beamed in by satillite!
Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 11-17-2000 07:53 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tiny little mirrors moving at light speed,
feature "films" stored in computer drives, bigger bulbs with shorter lives....what a nightmare, if you lose a show, no way anybody will know how to fix it.
No chance of a spare projector.

If you ever pick up any of the home theatre magazines, and particularly "Home Theatre", their stance is very clear. In one article discussing HOME theatre design, they begin by saying "Assuming you can't afford film projection equipment and the film prints to feed it". They then compare the options CRT, LCD, DLP.

CRT- better picture, limited size, brightness and constant maintenance.

LCD- brighter and bigger picture, but high "black levels" and noticable pixel structure.

DLP- same as LCD, slightly less pixels, still high "black levels".

They continually say that none will ever match "Mann's Chinese" and film.

None on this forum like to think about poorly trained projectionists, but I think it's a bigger nightmare with digital. More expensive, less reliable (has to be, "talkie"
film is perfected for 70 years), but you'll actually have to pay a very specialized computer technician to be at the theatre at all times (that is, if you care about your patrons).

I still think DLP is for home use.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-18-2000 09:30 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Reality
With all the major chains in bankruptcy, how/why are "they" going to afford $100,000+ video projectors (per screen) to replace something that does not need to be replaced? Somewhere along the line the thrill of the latest hightech BS is going to replaced with monetary reality. There are still many theaters that can't/won't afford $550 for vastly improved sound!

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-19-2000 07:59 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, I was thinking how (with theaters hurting for money) this is the perfect time to convince theater owners to put in electronic projection. Tell the owners about how the picture will be better, no operators needed to thread or maintain the equipment, and all the extra revenue they will get from showing advertisements.

Of course, it doesn't matter that the actual picture quality is not as good, the equipment will need some service, and more ads just gives patrons a reason to stay home. Most owners are not technically aware or interested in anything other than a short-term gain.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-19-2000 10:56 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Actually, I was thinking how (with theaters hurting for money) this is the perfect time to convince theater owners to put in electronic projection. Tell the owners about how the picture will be better, no operators needed to thread or maintain the equipment, and all the extra revenue they will get from showing advertisements."

Usually when you're bankrupt, it means that you don't have money to pay your bills. Coming up with $100k per screen would probably be pretty tough, unless your banker is far stupider than mine. Also, I don't think that many people will agree that "the picture will be better".

Is this a joke that I didn't get?

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-19-2000 11:23 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We're all sort of ignoring two important problems here: first, you can't just go out and buy a DLP projector; the ones that are in use now, as I understand thing, are rented/on loan from TI. They aren't production units, nor are they intended to be. Second, you can't just call up a film booker and say "I just put in a DLP machine and fired my projectionist; don't send me any more 35mm film...I want my movies delivered by satellite from now on." Even if one _could_ go out and buy a DLP machine, there would be precious little material to show on it. Kind of like high-def TV, actually. (Which, BTW, is probably going to fail spectactularly in the marketplace.)

For the long-term future, I agree that the electronic projection _concept_ does make sense for smaller theatres that don't necessarily need top-notch picture quality since they aren't providing it now with 35mm and many of them aren't suffering too badly despite this. On the other hand, there are too many implementation issues (reliability, encryption, picture quality) that need to be worked out first and which, if done right, probably won't get worked out for several more years.

For the short-term and medium-term future, I would say "Bring back 70mm!!!" but no one would listen, so I won't.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-19-2000 02:19 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was just at a National Park here in Greensboro. They have a little 120 seat auditorium where they show a historical presentation several times a day. It's on 16 mm and they have a continuous loop system. The guy/girl just presses a button and it goes. After it's over it shuts off and it's ready for the next show.

I was told by this guy that they are going to rip it out and put in a laser disk or something. Kinda makes me sad. What they have there is PERFECTLY functional. All they need is some Film-Guard and that picture would be almost PERFECT!

Check out the park here:

http://homepage.mac.com/randystankey/VtourGCNMP.html

There are mostly puctures of the park and stuff but there's one shot of the auditorium.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-19-2000 03:22 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
where is the booth shots?
What make of 16mm machine is it?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-19-2000 03:52 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
For that little screen, I'd say a 16mm portable 250 watt Eiki would be the ideal choice, since the Eiki has an auto-loop restorer that works quite well.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-19-2000 03:53 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I couldn't get a shot of the booth to come out. There was glass in the way and it was dark. I tried...

It's a little table top Elmo. It's been hooked to a remote control system. There's a cable hooled up to the lens somehow. I presume for remote focusing.

The endless loop system didn't have any labels on it. It was a tower about 3 or 4 feet tall and about 2 feet square. There was a port in the top where the film fed out of and there was a take-up port at the bottom. It seemed to be powered by the projector drive. There were some pulleys at the top that seemed to be turned as the projector pulled the film out. I presume the film was taken up on an elevtor mechanism inside. The whole show was only about 20 minutes long, so I figure that much film could be taken up inside a box of this size.

There was a Kodak Ektagraphic slide projector there too. There was a small counter that ran the width of the port, which was a full-wall size glass window.

Couldn't really tell much about the sound system but, I assume it is just an all-in-one mono box somewhere under the counter.

There were a couple of remote switches in the outer lobby. One for Start/Stop and the other for volume control. The folks there don't know much about the stuff, as you can imagine. I got as much information from them as I could, but what do you expect from Park Rangers? They've got other things to do.

What surprises me about it is that I EXPECTED it to be a video projector. When I saw that it was an actual FILM, I expected it to be one of those rear-projection cartridge loading jobs.

The place was really nice. A lot more than I expected.

They want to put in a laser disk system because they say they want to put in more programs and what they have now isn't easily changeable. I guess it's okay for the purpose but I told the Ranger that they should keep what they've got. He agreed with me, saying, "At least I can FIX this if it breaks!"

Maybe some other time I'll see if I can get them to let me in the booth. (It's Government property, so I'll probably not have much luck.)

PS: Where do you think they could put the Kelmar Media cleaner so I could talk them into a little Film-Guard?


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-20-2000 06:52 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Both film and digital imaging will be part of "The Future of Cinema". And so will Kodak:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/notes/march2000/
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/story/indexMain.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/notes/june2000/mayson.shtml

"Film Done Right" is hard to beat. A $1500 35mm release print only costs about $5 per showing. Digital Cinema will not be competitive until the image quality is better than film, and the costs come down dramatically. IMHO, it will happen, but not soon.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 11-20-2000 07:12 AM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I enjoy those notes John.

Most of you will like Spielberg's take on this: "I am going to direct all my films ON FILM until they close the last lab down."

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-20-2000 11:13 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greg wrote: "Is this a joke that I didn't get?"

Yes, it is... and I didn't explain it very well.... my fault...

My impression was/is that the cost of e-projectors will be subsidsed by advertisers. (You are right; no owner is going to fork out $100,000.)

So, now might be a good time for advertisers to go to broke theater owners and offer low terms to install e-projectors.

Advertisers could say stuff like, "Even though you are taking a loan from us, don't worry, you will start seeing a return soon because you can fire all your operators.. the picture is as good, no maintaince, etc."

Sorry about that!

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-20-2000 06:01 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Film companies don't care about picture quality, because they all think that EVERYBODY goes to the movies on the opening day.

Don't believe it? Just listen to the trailers.

"On November 17... Whatever Pictures presents...." etc.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-21-2000 05:52 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike Blakesley said: "Film companies don't care about picture quality."

I disagree. Certainly film companies want their films to make money. They know that audiences won't continue to go to theatres if prints get dirty and damaged. And having to sort and replace damaged reels in sub-runs adds to the cost of distribution.

The filmmakers themselves are very concerned about quality. When cinematographers visit Kodak, they always express concern about presentation quality in theatres --- especially having proper screen luminance (16 footlamberts), proper image size (no cropping, attention to framing) and clean, scratch-free prints.

If a print arrives in bad condition, you are justified in blaming someone else, and demanding replacement reels. But if a print leaves your theatre in worse condition than when it arrived, look in a mirror to find the likely cause. It is your responsibility to "Do Film Right" to the best of your ability.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-21-2000 08:54 AM      Profile for Bill Purdy   Author's Homepage   Email Bill Purdy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I must add my support to John's comments. The film's makers care the most, the film companies next, and the larger theatre owners seemingly the least. The irony is that when we get down to the booth folks the care level many times goes back up.

As a reminder I would point out that the Genesis of the THX program (like it or not) was from a trip to a local theatre by George Lucas, where he did not see anything like the "Starwars" he thought he had made. Maybe this is part of why he is so supportive of digital everything.

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