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Author Topic: Sound Processor for Satellite Feeds?
Michael Moore
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Dover, DE / USA
Registered: Jun 2006


 - posted 07-12-2007 01:18 PM      Profile for Michael Moore   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i would go with the dolby 650 but if price is a problem you can go with the JSD 80D for about 3,245.00. That was the last price quote i got when i was looking into upgrading.

so you have to think about the long haul. But these days I think electronics are disposable. I bet that 650 will be obsolete in 8 to 10 years, and a new processor will be out for 30,000.00. And the JSD80 will be as well, and then the new models will be obsolete and so on and so on..

Mike

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-12-2007 01:47 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What type of video projector will you be using and do you have a video processor or scaler? Most video projectors introduce a delay of about one frame, which is fine for most theatres, but if your video processor/scaler and/or projector delays the picture by more than that, you will need to delay the sound from the satellite feed by a corresponding amount (in either the analog or digital domain). I know that this is an issue with the full-size DLP units (not that you probably have one of these, though...).

The DMA8 can delay its digital input by a configurable amount. Not sure on the CP650 or Ultra-Stereo units, though an analog delay unit is always an option.

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Michael Moore
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From: Dover, DE / USA
Registered: Jun 2006


 - posted 07-12-2007 01:58 PM      Profile for Michael Moore   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The JSD80 offers a delay that is up to greater the 80 ms i think at least this is what I was told and is needed for most DLP projectors. I think i may have seen that in the manual.

Mike

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David Graham Rose
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Sep 2002


 - posted 07-12-2007 03:25 PM      Profile for David Graham Rose   Email David Graham Rose   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings

I reckon you will need a DMA8 as the audio from a sat will reach you as a consumer format. The DMA 8 will do the necessary D to A and from here you will be able to send it to a processor on th6 channel input.

David

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 07-12-2007 04:51 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Norwood
What type of video projector will you be using and do you have a video processor or scaler? Most video projectors introduce a delay of about one frame, which is fine for most theatres, but if your video processor/scaler and/or projector delays the picture by more than that, you will need to delay the sound from the satellite feed by a corresponding amount (in either the analog or digital domain). I know that this is an issue with the full-size DLP units (not that you probably have one of these, though...).
We send the digital cinema sound into input 1 on a DMA8 plus, SP/dif digital from the DVD player into input 3, and I have used the digital optical output from my laptop into input 4.

Two channel analogue audio from the DVD player, DVCam recorder, and any other A/V equipment which may be brought in goes to a composite video/audio switcher, then to a two output distribution unit. One outpot goes to a little, about five inch, flat screen monitor on top of the sound rack, and the other output through a box of tricks which can do various things, but is only used to digitally delay the analogue audio signals to match the projector; the delay is three frames. This then goes into the CP-65 via the mag/aux input.

quote: Randy Stankey
From the Metropolitain Opera for starters.
I am interested in hearing about people doing this sort of thing. As far as I am concerned, digital has little advantage over film at present, and no way does it justify the cost of installing it for showing 'normal' films, which could just as well be run on film.

Obviously, showing this sort of thing is making use of the digital equipment to do something which you simply couldn't do with film, and is therefore a more interesting use of the digital equipment.

One of the projectionists who has just left the Clocktower also projects at a cinema in Brighton, which is on the south coast, about 50 miles south of London. He says they took the Met. opera shows there, and they did quite well. I don't know in what format the signals were delivered.

Showing live events on cinema screens largely died out long ago. Sporting events were the most common, of which boxing matches probably lasted until about the early '70s. I think they were shown only in black and white, I don't know whether in 405, 525 or 625 lines, though 405 would be unlikely towards the end. I had no interest in boxing, so I never saw one of these presentations, though I do remember seeing posters for them at several London cinemas, e.g. the Astoria, Old Kent Road.

Growing numbers of people having televisions at home, including colour, and presumably the cost and work involved in hireing in an Eidophor and operator, and getting it installed, and a feed hooked up to it, eventually killed off these shows. The Odeon Leicester Square was the only cinema to have an Eidophor permanently installed.

Thngs have changed somewhat today; events are now shown in high definition, so the picture quality will be better. A fair number of cinemas now have digital projectors installed, and so can show this sort of thing without having to bring in special equipment for it.

Last year the Odeon Leicester Square showed several matches from the football World Cup, and I'm told these also did quite well.

I'm a bit doubtful about showing something like the Met. Opera live; it's ok where you are, and you could probably get away with showing an early performance in London, but if you were to show it in Tokyo or Beijing for example, people would have to go out in the middle of the night to see it. They might do this once, but I think the novelty would soon wear off. It's somewhat different for a sporting event, but for 'art' I think it might be better to show a recording a few hours later, at a sensible time of day.

If anybody else is showing this sort of thing, I'd be interested to hear how you get on with it.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-12-2007 05:02 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Starting with firmware 2.3.x.x, the CP650 has global audio delay. The JSD80 added it as well. You would only need the DMA-8 if you are going to need Dolby-E capability with either processor. If you just need AES, then both can do this without external help. If AC-3 support (consumer) is needed, then you can use the USL box for this (the model escapes me) or just the the CP650.

I still say the CP650 is your best bet and probably will suffice for better than 10-years.

Steve

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Marin Zorica
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 07-12-2007 06:19 PM      Profile for Marin Zorica   Email Marin Zorica   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If You don't want to spend money use some "home theater" dolby digital-prologic/dts receiver (they're very cheap today) and put digital audio from sattelitre receiver to get decoded AC3 5.1 ch audio and take it from line out and go with it to MOD III external inputs....simple and cheap....just pay attention to external outputs of receiver, that doesn't have all!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
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 - posted 07-13-2007 11:45 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since I beleive the theatre has a Peavey Media Matrix house system that the cinema system feeds into one needs only the DA converter

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-13-2007 01:39 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If it is a Media Matrix...then just get a digital I/O module (CABs I believe).

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Michael Moore
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Dover, DE / USA
Registered: Jun 2006


 - posted 07-13-2007 08:56 PM      Profile for Michael Moore   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the feed is going to be a consumer format for audio, I just un installed our Lexicon DC-2. It has the latest firmware as of 2001 ( i think 2.9) but since there is a firmware version 4.0 that you can get. It can decode Dolby 5.1, DTS and has its own digital version called logic 7 as well as THX surround. It will do Pro logic as well and has 8 channels out that are unbalanced. It is a pre-amp so it will have to be ran to amplifiers. We used it for DVD's. We are looking to upgrade but have no money as of now. Over all the unit is very good, however you a very limited for B chain... contact me we can work out a deal if you want.

Mike

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 07-13-2007 09:38 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As noted above, you will need a delay system to allow sync with the picture. "Home" units don't have this.

Still the best deal is the CP-650. Louis

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Stephen Furley
Film God

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From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 07-14-2007 02:55 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So what format is the sound, and the picture for that matter, actually going to be delivered in? unless I've missed something we still don't know. Could be just about anything, PCM, Dolby Digital, Dolby E, multi-channel, 2 channel matrixed. Has the satellite system actually been installed yet? What comes out of the box at the end of it? It's quite possible that the signal gets converted to a different form, e.g. decoded to 6 channel analogue, before you even get your hands on it, or it could be AES digital, either 75 Ohm BNC or 110 Ohm XLR versions, SP/dif, who knows?

For opera you obviously want the best possible sound quality, so I wouldn't skimp on it.

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Michael Moore
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Dover, DE / USA
Registered: Jun 2006


 - posted 07-14-2007 11:25 PM      Profile for Michael Moore   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the lexicon DC-2 has a delay well over 80 ms. I never had to delay anything when using it with DVDs and a digital projector in our theater. However the feature is built in the menu options. it is call A/V sync delay. The lexicon is considered a high end consumer home processor/pre/amp.

Mike

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