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Author Topic: Digital Cinema In UK John Caswell Film Handler Posts: 35 From: Liverpool, Merseyside, UK Registered: Oct 2006 posted 04-10-2007 05:23 PM                     You're right Stephen. Frequency's pretty much spot on (15.63 off the top of my head). Oh well, fingers crossed Christie / Arts Alliance will sort out the whole HDCP thingamajig.  |  IP: Logged Alan Gouger Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 501 From: Bradenton, FL, USA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 04-11-2007 09:22 AM                        Here in the states at least both BD and HD DVD only output 1080i on the component output, no 1080P. I thought most cinema digital projectors had HD SDI inputs. Im surprized to hear some do not. What is the standard connector between the server and projector ?  |  IP: Logged Paul Carey Film Handler Posts: 17 From: St Andrews, Scotland, UK Registered: Feb 2004 posted 04-12-2007 05:38 AM                        The issue isn't really with the Cine-IPM doing HDCP or not, the problem lies with the projector hardware. The HDCP protection has to go as far back as the projector itself. So HDCP hardware would have to be done by the CP2000 down to the Cine-IPM. If this wasn't the case then you could start copying HD-DVD's by connecting the HDMI ports up to the Cine-IPM and then copying the output to where ever you liked. This then defeats the whole point of the copyright protection. It's almost like the current CineLink II method of constant handshaking between the projector and server while playback of digital content is happening. It's an interesting one, which we'll have to wait and see if Christie address it. Paul  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-12-2007 06:44 AM                     Presumably this would just be a matter of software upgrades to projector and Cine-IPM 2k, so it could be done. Again presumably, it would need licence fees paying to whoever owns HDCP, and given that cinemas are generally about showing films to large audiences those fees would probably me much higher than for home equipment. Cinemas don't generally show films in this format, so maybe the cost wasn't thought worth it. Of course, anybody would have the option to release a HD disc without HDCP if they wanted it to be shown in cinemas, unlikely for feature films, but possible for other types of material. If anybody just wants to try it out to see what it looks like, making a high definition DVD isn't difficult, and it doesn't even have to be on HDDVD or Blu-ray media, the same format and file structure can be written to a normal DVD-R disc, though the running time is obviously rather limited, but this wouldn't matter just for a test. You would obviously need either a HD player, or a computer with a normal DVD ROM drive and suitable software to decode the HD format installed, but that ought to work, and it would not have HDCP, so a DSN installation should be able to show it. Maybe I'll try putting my BBC clips, which are Quicktime movies, through Compressor and DVD studio, at whatever the typical bitrates are for a HD disc, and try it. I'd have to play it on a computer as I don't have a HD player. I'm not actually what format HD discs are in, is it H264? I don't have my DVD Studio and Compressor books with me at the moment. If this is possible in future, what would happen if a cinema booked an old film on 35mm, but found the print was in poor condition when it arrived, and simply went out and bought a HD disc and ran that instead? I have heard of cinemas which have booked a 35mm print from a legitimate source, but just left it in the cans, and borrowed a better print from somewhere else (a collector?) and run that instead, but in that case it's unlikely that anybody would find out. A DVD would not normally be licenced for public exhibition, but if you had paid the fee for such exhibition by booking the 35mm print, where would you stand?  |  IP: Logged Peter Castle Expert Film Handler Posts: 220 From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia Registered: Oct 2003 posted 04-12-2007 08:32 AM                     We haven't got a DCI-compliant projector - just a Panasonic 10000 lumen HD projector (1920x1080) with DVI input with HDCP. I've tried Blu-Ray through the projector and it is every bit as good as I expected. Sharp vivid pictures and better than film sound. We did a comparison after a film screening of "Babel". The general opinion was that the picture was clearer, the subtitles easier to read, the sound fantastic. The only slightly negative comment was that the Blu-Ray's colours were not as rich as the film. I see this as a lower cost alternative to DCI, and a much better solution than the current 1280 x 720 resolution e-cinema being used in Australia. Just a pity that Blu-Ray availability is still limited. Further to Stephen's comment about using DVD (or HD disc), we've shown off DVD when a 35mm print was unavailable, by arrangement with the distributor (of both the film and DVD). Upscaled DVD, when done properly can come close to HD.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-17-2007 02:04 PM                     quote: Peter Castle Further to Stephen's comment about using DVD (or HD disc), we've shown off DVD when a 35mm print was unavailable, by arrangement with the distributor (of both the film and DVD). Upscaled DVD, when done properly can come close to HD. I think there may well be some additional complications, not technical ones, with doing that here in the UK. The DVDs are intended mainly for home use, though some film societies etc. do obtain a licence to show them to a limited audience, and a great many more hire them from Blockbuster and show them to such groups without any such licence. The certification of films for home and theatrical screening are quite separate in this country, a film could get a different certificate for each, possibly with small changes to the content, I don't think the '12a' theatrical certificate exists for home release, and DVDs do not normally have the BBFC certificate on screen before the start of the film, which theatrical prints do. These are not issues which couldn't be resolved, but I think they may need to be before the public theatrical screening of DVDs would be generally allowed here.  |  IP: Logged Neil Robinson Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Coxhoe, Durham, UK Registered: May 2004 posted 04-18-2007 03:34 PM                     I have just seen the new film Inland Empire distributed in the UK by Optimum Releasing at the Tyneside Cinema at their temporary home in the old town hall Gateshead, the film was shown on their newly aquired Digital Projector having worked in cinema projection for over 20 years there are some who will no doubt say I simply don't want change but I think it will be a sad day for Cinema if Digital Replaces 35m/m completly, it may be ok for Art House product that is on limited release to be shown in Digital format but mainstream no, what I saw did not look anything like the quality of film it looked similar to an LCD or Plazma TV shown on a cinema screen,does anyone else agree or am I in a minority  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-18-2007 04:45 PM                     We open this film, in digital, on Friday; I haven't seen it, so I can't comment on how it looks, but as I understand it, this was shot on some sort of digital video format, not on film, nor on a digital cinema format. That being the case, I don't think you can really use it to judge the quality of a digital projection system. I'm running 'Becoming Jane' on digital tomorrow, but the only film I've actually seen on our system so far is 'Wizard of Oz', and that's not exactly typical either. [ 04-20-2007, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Stephen Furley ]  |  IP: Logged Andy Muirhead Master Film Handler Posts: 323 From: Galashiels, Scotland Registered: Dec 2000 posted 04-18-2007 07:17 PM                     Neil, Inland Empire is terrible on the DLP's. As Stephen said, it was shot on DV and looks appalling. I'm pretty embarrassed to run this on our Christie, actually ran SD DVD through the machine that looked better. I too was sceptical before getting our DLP, but was simply blown away by the picture. Try and check out another 'film' running on the machines before writing it off! If you are ever up my way I'd be happy to arrange a demo!  |  IP: Logged Caleb Johnstone-Cowan Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 593 From: London, UK Registered: Mar 2006 posted 04-18-2007 10:19 PM                     I wouldn't judge digital projection on the basis of 'Inland Empire'. Go along for a CGI kids film or something similar.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-20-2007 04:31 AM                     It arrived yesterday morning, so I ran a few minutes of it last night between films to see how it looked; If you'll pardon the language, it looked bloody awful. There is no technical reason for a film shot on DV to look like that, and some scenes look much better than others, so the only reasonable explanation is that this was how he wanted his film to look, in which case you can't really argue with it. I still don't know what it is about; is it supposed to look like a home movie, or something? It was far worse than typical DVD, even a letterboxed non-anamorphic widescreen one on a composite feed (I've now got the new component cables ready, and they should be going in tomorrow). It must be getting on for ten years ago now that I did some projection for the Jewish Film Festival, in North London. Some of the material was on VHS, shown on an early, and very large and heavy, DLP video projector. It didn't look great, but was better than I expected, and better than the few minutes of this thing that I saw yesterday looked. quote: Alan Gouger I thought most cinema digital projectors had HD SDI inputs. Im surprized to hear some do not. As far as I am aware, this is the case. Unless I have missed a post, I don't think anybody said otherwise. Did you think this because of the mention of a SDI input module for the Cine IPM 2k? If so, I believe that the projectors only handle certain standards, so you would need to go though the Cine IPM 2k for various scaling and conversion functions on other signals, e.g. standard definition video, even if they were on SDI; can anybody confirm this? The Cine IPM also provides a switching function between the various inputs of course. The SDI modules have two inputs, so if you installed two of them you could switch between four SDI inputs, plus the four built-in inputs which between them can handle DVI, VGA (via the DVD-I connector with an adapter or the 5xBNC input with a suitable cable), RGBs, RGsB, RGBHV, Y,Pr,Pb, Y/C S-video and composite, in just about any video system in use anywhere in the world. Later versions can also take a second composite or Y/C input (but not both together) via the RGB/Y,Pr,Pb input if that is not otherwise in use. All controlable from the unit's remote control, cabled or IR, RS-232, RS-422 and Ethernet. There are several different optional modules available, but I can't remember what the others were for. Output is via 2 DVI-D connections, 8 bit using one of them, which can be mirrored onto the other e.g. for a monitor if required, or 10 bit using both. It really is a very versatile unit. I wouldn't even want to think about what it costs. The manual which came with our one seems to be for a slightly different, earlier version. I found one available to download which does seem to match our hardware. The manual does seem rather daunting at first, but in most cases it seems to detect the correct signal type automatically. It is possible to adjust just about anything manually if needed though. I'd like to have seen a bit more information on the front panel display; it doesn't even tell you which input is active, you get horizontal and vertical sync frequencies, and whether the on-screen display is on or off, and that's about it. Also, I still haven't managed to turn the on-screen display off; I can press the appropriate buttons, and it still shows that it is on. Will try to find time to have another play tomorrow.  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 04-20-2007 05:18 PM                     FWIW I read before that Inland Empire started off as a project for Mr. Lynch's website but then he decided to go for theatrical release. Perhaps he must have shot quite a bit of material by that point, so stuck with the DV format.  |  IP: Logged

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