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Author Topic: More Questions For the Digital Cinema people Mike Rendall Film Handler Posts: 78 From: Southampton, Hampshire, UK Registered: Nov 2002 posted 01-29-2003 07:42 AM                     Another important question I would feel necessary is, Have they standardised on the playback formats. I.e. some sort of laser disc, banks of Hard discs, or beamed through satellite ?? I have heard that the Digital Projection system in a certain famous cinema in London is always being modified for the film in question. I.e. for one film it may come off a laser disc, on another it would come of hard discs - both of which are distributor independant. It may come back to the old story of certain distributors favouring digital sound formats of a few years ago.... Mike  |  IP: Logged Bill Langfield Master Film Handler Posts: 280 From: Prospect, NSW, Australia Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-29-2003 08:32 AM                        Mike, Good question!! That is going on the list. However, I think the answer will be 'hard-drive downloaded via satellite or internet' (Or your internet ready frezzer) Hopefully all this stuff (video projection in mainstream cinemas) is 20 years away. Bill.  |  IP: Logged Ray Derrick Master Film Handler Posts: 310 From: Sydney, Australia Registered: Sep 2001 posted 01-29-2003 08:45 AM                     Oh my gawd! The wonderful Orpheum is going digital!?!? Bill, the Orpheum has Panastereo sound processors! I forgot to mention that they have this built-in feature that, if you play a Digital Cinema soundtrack through them, a small alien-like creature emerges from the front panel with a minature keypad and starts blowing up all the cards, one by one. It was intended as a harmless joke, but the alien now says he knows more than we do about digital cinema. (gasp!) You'd better upgrade to Dolby CP650's really fast. They have this "anything in = garbage out" filter. R.D.  |  IP: Logged Bill Langfield Master Film Handler Posts: 280 From: Prospect, NSW, Australia Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-29-2003 08:58 AM                        Ray, quote: Oh my gawd! The wonderful Orpheum is going digital!?!? Not if Brett and I can stop it. This is only a demo. It would be really cool if you could come along. BTW: I Owe you a DTS reader. See you on 9th Feb, Please come. Bill.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 01-29-2003 09:05 AM                    quote: I suspect that Rick McCallum has experienced many examples of "Film Done Right" and knows it looks better The projectionist of the Stag Theater at Skywalker Ranch probably knows that he'll be castrated (and then fired) if he screws up George Lucas' presentation.  |  IP: Logged Ray Derrick Master Film Handler Posts: 310 From: Sydney, Australia Registered: Sep 2001 posted 01-29-2003 09:08 AM                     Bill, forget the DTS reader. I'll come along just so I can watch my processors blow up..... eh, I mean, so I can report back to all these good folk just how wonderful the digital experience is... well, might have been, had it been on 35mm film RD  |  IP: Logged Paul Konen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 981 From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-29-2003 09:34 AM                     These are great questions to ask and am very interested in seeing the answers. Bill, will you be recording the other Q&A's for us to see? Some of the questions regarding standards will be answered with the following that DC-28 and SMPTE currently have committees working on standards for distribution, playback and anything else technical in regards to Digital Cinema. Upgrades is a good question but will probably receive a vague answer as it is too new to really understand. My impression will be the playback server may be the most influenced by upgrades. Projector upgrades will co-incide (sp?) with resolution upgrades, if they aren't there yet. (Don't start with the 'They will never reach film levels' argument here) Finally, one thing that I have been biting my tongue is everyone calling it video. It is a different method for projecting an analog image on to a screen regardless of the medium and source. Until the MATRIX days are with us that we can have direct digital inputs into our brains, everything will be analog presentation. 90%+ of the audiences todays probably don't know what contrast ratio is, black levels, or even what the cinematographer is trying to convey with the film stock that was used during filming. They are there to see a story. Off the subject, even home technology is getting away from analog storage and going digital by using Hard Drives for storage / playback but yet refer to the video in it's product name. PVR - Personal Video Recorder. These are the Dish-PVR, TIVO, REPLAY TV units that are becoming more and more popular today. DVD-Recorders are coming down in prices and encouraging people to transfer tapes to DVD.  |  IP: Logged Michael Barry Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 584 From: Sydney, NSW, Australia Registered: Nov 1999 posted 01-29-2003 10:06 AM                     Bill, I am free that morning, but I'm on at that other cinema the night before. If I can drag myself out of bed, I will be there. Sounds interesting! I'm wondering what brought this on. Was the demo requested by the Orpheum, or were ILM/McCallum looking for a venue somewhere and the Orpheum put up their hand? Also, who is the audience going to mainly consist of. ie. who are they selling this to? If I got a chance to ask questions, my main ones would probably be: - How do you upgrade the projector when better DLP/D-ILA chips become available, and who pays for the upgrades? With film, the upgrade is in the film stock itself. - What about server/playback unit upgrades? - Is there any chance of a 'no compression' system? Compression leads to visual compromises (after all, film is uncompressed). - Can the system match the incredible contrast ratio of a movie like 'Minority Report', which was printed on Vision Premiere print stock? That film had incredible black levels due to the 10,000:1 contrast ratio available on that kind of print stock. (I prefer to get the argument away from resolution and concentrate more on contrast ratio). - What sort of colour callibration/other video adjustments are required on an ongoing basis (or is it set and forget?) I should also mention that with FilmGuard, it is possible to run a print hundreds of times without any dirt buildup whatsoever, thus nullifying the 'no dirt or scratches' argument that always seems to come up in favour of digital. ...that's it for now. [ 01-30-2003, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Michael Barry ]  |  IP: Logged Ray Derrick Master Film Handler Posts: 310 From: Sydney, Australia Registered: Sep 2001 posted 01-29-2003 10:24 AM                     Paul, you said... "90%+ of the audiences todays probably don't know what contrast ratio is, black levels, or even what the cinematographer is trying to convey with the film stock that was used during filming. They are there to see a story." I would add that 99.99% of today's (or any other day's) audiences would not understand the technical nuances of making a music recording, or the technical specs of their CD/DVD player or any other technical or production aspects of sound or vision media. But nearly everyone appreciates the entertainment value of a good recording or a well shot/produced/presented movie etc. Sure their primary interest is in the story or the enjoyment of the performance etc, but that technical excellence, which they don't understand or don't want to know about, has a profound impact on their enjoyment of the end product. To suggest otherwise is sheer nonesense. Nobody doubts that VIDEO (sorry, but go bite your tongue), be it digital or analog will ultimately replace film in cinemas. The argument here is that it should replace it for the right reasons i.e it offers an improvement, not just because some companies want to make a quick buck on the back of the word "digital". Now did I misunderstand the thrust of your post?  |  IP: Logged Paul Konen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 981 From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-29-2003 12:01 PM                     Ray, I don't think you got it wrong. I guess that what I am getting at is that unless it is published, announced that "This was done for this, and this was done for that" the general audience isn't going to understand the nuance of what was trying to be done. Films that come to mind are "O Brother..." and some drug movie where the image was yellowish when in Mexico and regular colors when in the US. (Please don't expand on this in this thread so it doesn't get more off track) My point about the "video" comment (see other threads) is that others on this board refer to Digital Cinema as video. It puts a analog picture on the screen just like film puts an analog picture on the screen. Bill, see if Rick can expand on the argument that companies use about film color fading just from regular use of a print. Maybe John P could expand on this. Bill, also see if Rick has seen any output from Kodaks' system. (I am not slamming them as I only have exposure to DLP). It is currently only being used for dailies, I believe, but think he may have an opinion about it.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 01-29-2003 01:22 PM                        quote: ... from John P.: This assumes theatres/distributors will do a better job maintaining new digital projection systems, or be willing to pay someone to do it for them. John, methinks if you ever decide to change professions, you've got a future in comedy!  |  IP: Logged Don E. Nelson Expert Film Handler Posts: 138 From: Brentwood, CA, USA Registered: Nov 2001 posted 01-29-2003 02:54 PM                     My inquiring mind needs an answer! How does the brain perceive and process the difference between an analog image as oposed to a digital image ? Why are digital films still being projected onto the same analog screen surfaces that analog films are projected onto? Will the new digital only projection screen materials, under development, improve the "look and feel"of a digitally projected image? Is anyone working on digital sound reinforcement systems to go along with digital projectors? Why is it that an analog music source can only sound like an analog source, but a digital music source can sound digital as well as analog, and some people (like me)actually prefer the analog processed sound from a digial source? Do you think they will ever bring back the old tube type Digital projectors, as I recall, the colors were so much warmer (more like Technicolor) and the there wasn't as much harshness in the picture resolution? Is anyone developing a Digital Projection Cinerama, three projector system operating from a single processed signal, eliminating the overlap edge image problem of film? I own stock in a "film splicer cement" company, should I sell my stock now or buy more? I am kind of set in my old ways, is it possible to program a little 24 fps flicker , digitally enhanced reel cue dots, soft focus, and a few poor reel changes into a Digital Projector so that the projected image more closely simulates the moving image I see at my local 5-plex movie house? Why does buttered popcorn always taste better when I watch a film as oposed to watching a big TV image? I have more questions, but I have to go break down a film. Gee, if this was a Digital Theatre, maybe I could take a longer lunch break........no, the boss would probably have me just work a longer shift at the candy counter.  |  IP: Logged Helmut E. Dorausch Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Simi Valley, CA, USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 01-29-2003 03:43 PM                        RE: "How many people work in Wilmington?" Wilmington, (Ohio) is a city that (from what I understand) consists of an awful LOT of people that work for Technicolor Film Services. My point pertains to the number of jobs that would be eliminated, (primarily as it relates to distribution) if Digital were to become mainstream. (That doesn't even begin to take into account the large number of Fuji, and Kodak employees that could be affected) 35mm STILL has a long way to go!!!!!!!!!!!  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 01-29-2003 06:25 PM                        Bill I was referring to an interview that John Pytlak quoted in this thread.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 01-29-2003 10:19 PM                    I guess the most important question to be asked is this. Will this system replace every motion picture projector in our lifetime. My feeling is it will not, not in my lifetime. Lord willing the next 30 plus years. Now that doesn't mean that a vast majority of theaters doesn't have at least one maybe two or even three depending on how big the theater is. But every single screen not at this point or for a long time. Problem is with this type of technology the waters can be very tricky when it comes to selling an exhibitor into something that could turn out to be a very expensive backfire. There are still a lot of huge hurdles ahead for something to replace something that has worked for a century. Someone made the comment about the average movie goer not being able to tell about how black blacks should be and other things. Makes a good point why bother spending vast amounts of money for something the average movie goer isn't going to be able to tell the difference about anyway. So the picture looks the same on the last show as it did on the first show. Film done right can do the same thing. To be honest, the average film goer with no knowledge of anything in the booth or how film works will not give a crap about what the picture looks like so long as it is in focus and the sound is working properly. But if that popcorn is stale they will be out in a jiffy complaining to the ceiling demanding ther money back cusin you out. But it takes someone with an above average attitude torwards film to come out and say the film is a littl out of frame or focus. Hell, I had someone come out and ask me to fix the color because the film had sequences that were black and white. Average movie goers don't care. Above average the ones who care about the art of films do care but they are a minority. Everyone on this site that takes part on FILM-TECH are part of that minority and I am proud to be associated with them. Lets keep doing film done right for everyone even if only the minority group are the only ones who care.  |  IP: Logged

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