Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Kodak Digital Cinema System (Page 3)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Kodak Digital Cinema System
John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-12-2001 01:56 AM      Profile for John Eickhof   Author's Homepage   Email John Eickhof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, I agree about the D-ILA chip! Did you notice the strange thing in the Sony Demo rrom? They too are licensing the D-ILA from JVC! When was the last time you ever saw Sony license anything from anyone!! Amazing!!! I Visited Edwards Irvine Spectrum theatres today, got a booth tour, (mainly to see the DLP in action)But, to my surprise (But not the projectionist) It was not in use and has been idle about a month as they told me that it is difficult to aquire product to run on it thus it has been used only about 50% of the time!!! Interesting!!!
Also, the Sony Demo was on a 35-38 foot wide screen with a 2KW lamp and integrated unit, it looked preety damn good!

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

Ted Costas
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Hollywood, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 03-12-2001 11:55 AM      Profile for Ted Costas   Email Ted Costas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John P.,

I'm pretty sure Bob Mayson was "totally against" Digital Cinema two years ago... at least that's the impression I got every time he opened his mouth. But then again, company stratagies can change, nothing wrong with that. I'm simply pointing out the irony in that the two companies pushing Digital Cinema forward are the same two that were "considering" jumping out their windows every time the word "digital" was mentioned two years prior.

On a side note, John, your presence was missed this year at ShoWest... I could feel the "force" was not as strong this year. I hope your wife is doing better and that the force will be at full strength next year.

Yours,
Ted Costas
Manager, THX Theatre Alignment Program

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-12-2001 12:36 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ted: Thanks for the good wishes on Betsy's health. She was glad to have me in Rochester last week, and her ulcer seems to be healing with the Prevacid and modification of her other medications.

As I noted, Kodak (including Bob Mayson) will continue to ask hard questions regarding the technology and economics of Digital Cinema, as should everyone in the movie industry. That's the only way it will ever be better and more cost-effective than "Film Done Right".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


Ted Costas
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Hollywood, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 03-13-2001 12:57 PM      Profile for Ted Costas   Email Ted Costas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
J.P.,

Please, don't think I'm dissing Kodak... we love you guys. Any chance you guys will be joining the rest of us in supporting the ETC? It's great to have your own research facility, but we got a good thing going at the ETC, and Kodak should be a part of it, don't you think?

Ted

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-13-2001 02:05 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ted: As you know, despite being an Electronic Engineer, I'm a "film guy", so you're talking to the wrong person.

The Kodak Imaging Technology Center (ITC) in Hollywood and the labs back here in Rochester are very busy with research and development efforts. As you know, early last year we renovated the 2000 seat Kodak "Theater on the Ridge" with a 25 x 63 foot screen and new projection room for this very purpose, well before the ETC even opened. Unlike the ETC, our large theatre already has 70mm film capability.

Kodak's participation and financial sponsorship of the ETC is a business decision that I am not privy to.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 03-13-2001 02:19 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, you mention artificial sharpness created by edge enhancement. I have become very sensitive to such edge enhancement and agree with you. I first became aware of the false high-frequency information in 1997 when I bought a disc with test patterns and instructions for calibrating my TV. Ever since I was able to see what the sharpness control actually does, I've become very sensitive to that type of enhancement, and dislike it, whether it be sharpening of images on WWW sites or the sharpening that takes place when TV commercials are blown up to 35mm film! (Ugh)

The sad thing is if you take the average person who does not understand such things, they will invariably say that a TV with the sharpness control turned up "looks better" or that an edge-enhanced image "looks better". I'm currently taking a digital image processing class and we have been studying image enhancement in both the spatial and frequency domains. A very common approach to edge enhancement for images is to use a convolution mask (various convolution masks can be calculated to approximate any given frequency based filter H(x,y)). The larger the convolution mask h(x,y), the better the approximation, but simple 3x3 or 5x5 masks can often be used to smooth or sharpen effectively. Another edge enhancement technique is to high-pass filter an image and add it back to the original image. Edge enhancement, while sometimes improving images for human perception, actually destroys the integrity of an image. Look at an edge-enhanced image or test pattern on a TV with the sharpness run up and between abrupt transitions of color, such as from gray to black, there will be a brighter gray area between the two solid colors that goes away when the sharpness control is adjusted properly (all the way down on some but not all sets). Be sure to turn off scanning velocity modulation, which produces the same effect!

I fear that digital cinema is going to have problems because edge enhancement is a cheap way to make an image look sharper and crisper to the average viewer, while distorting and corrupting true high-frequency detail in an image. The other problem is aliasing, which I have addressed in a previous thread. The nature of film grain prevents aliasing (except for temporal alaising due to the 24 fps frame rate), but a rigid array of sampling points will create alaising in the image, and if the projection resolution is different than the camera resolution, then additional artifacts will be added due to the resolution conversion.

I'd rather see extra film grain than spatial aliasing! For a demonsration of sampling a signal with a wide range of frequencies, refer to my previous thread "Film vs. Digital (trading noise for aliasing?". Such aliasing happens most frequently when near-vertical or near-horizontal straight objects appear in an image, such as blinds on windows in a background. Fine patterns on clothing or objects (car grilles, air vents, textures, etc) can cause aliasing as well, and can create false patterns in the image.

The way to minimize the impact of these problems with digital sampling using rectangular arrays (or any other regular array) is to use a high enough resolution so that most problems are not visible at even a relatively close viewing distance, and to do smart filtering (ideal filters which cut off everything above a given frequency produce an unpleasant ringing effect (which may be a counter-intuitive notion for many of you)). To prove it to yourself, take an image than has a single white dot an a black background. Let f be the desired cutoff frequency. Let D(x,y) be the distance from a point from the origin. Take the image's Fourier transform, than set every point (x,y) in the Fourier transform to 0 if D(x,y) is greater than f. Now take the inverse Fourier transform. You should have the original image, ideal filtered with cutoff f. You'll see a ringing effect around the original dot if you picked the right value for f. Play with that, varying the value for f.

Bottom line: use a high enough resolution to supply real detail and filter properly to minimize ringing and aliasing! If this is done properly by the digital projection equipment makers AND the digital movie camera makers, then digital cinema might be wonderful. However, I doubt that this will occur any time soon.

Evans A Criswell
http://home.hiwaay.net/~criswell/theatre/



John T. Mellor
Film Handler

Posts: 52
From: Htafield, Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 03-13-2001 09:04 PM      Profile for John T. Mellor   Email John T. Mellor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John
Its good to see Kodak is in the Digital Development. Notice I say Development , my concern is the fact that technoligy mves so fast that when you get it its obsolete. Film done right as well as any other medium is ok but the digital to me still has along way to go . John, if you remeber at Showeast I told you that I have a challage for Digital and if the digital people can meet it the picture will look great. The challange is to fill a drive-in screen 52x120ft from 300 ft away with at least 14 ft lamberts , if you can do that just think how an indoor screen will look
I am concerned about the small indoor theatre and the drive-in operators
Any thoughts on that
John

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-13-2001 09:15 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most of the demos I have seen have been on screens less than about 45 feet wide, although I guess they have tried to fill larger screens at some sites (e.g., Mexico City, Toronto). Remember for both film and digital projection, it is the AREA of the screen that counts --- double the width is four times the area, and needs four times more light.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.