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Topic: CBG-NATO Selects AccessIT

Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 04-04-2008 05:58 PM

quote: Ron Funderburg
I wonder if AccessIT was the low bidder or the bidder with most cost efficient plan those are two separate issues.

Based on the information that CBG sent out, I don't think it was so much a "low bid" contract but more along the lines of who could actually negotiate the VPFs and make the financing happen. It appears that there will be a different "deal" for a seasonal or second run operation vs a full-time first run operation.

quote: Ron Funderburg
Steve it appears to me that TI is pushing the home theater market for DLP really hard. I wonder if that is just a natural outgrowth of the work on Cinema, the larger market for home or because the Cinema part just isn't working out

DLP was designed for the home market. The D-Cinema market was an outgrowth of that as well as a marketing opportunity. The problem that TI has with DLP is that the cost of flat panel (LCD and Plasma) has come down drastically to the point where people will purchase a 42" flat panel for $1800 vs a 65" DLP rear projection set for $1700 (using wobulation to get a "1080P" image).

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-08-2008 09:26 AM

So now that these 600 CBG members have a "deal," where does it go from here? CBG/NATO seems to be saying, "This is it, everyone who's not a member had their chance, now the deal is done."

So my question is, why all this back-room dealing and skullduggery? Why isn't this equipment being sold just like all other cinema equipment is sold?

Say I am a small independent or better yet, a museum or performing arts center and I am planning to build a new theatre in say two or three years. I want to install D-Cinema because I hear the mantry -- "In 4 years 35mm projectors will be hurled off the balcony." So how come I can't go to a my Cinema Supplier who sold me my Century or Simplex and say, "I'd like to buy a Christie or Barco and a server please."? Why isn't it as easy as that? Why do I need a buying group to get a price? And has anyone even seen a price yet -- I mean, not some guess but a price tag...a list price on a 2K projector? Why is this a secret?

If I go to AccessIt and say, I want to install D-Cinema, are they going to tell me no, you needed to belong to CBG; if your not, your price is going to be double for the same equipment we sold to them? How does this move D-Cinema along to the omni-present format that the industry seems to claim it wants it to be?

In fact, the organization I work for will have a new 75 million (so far) performing arts facility up in 4 years. I would like to be able to tell them, "You will need to put this digital equipment into the booth" and give them a list....with estimated that can be gleened from published LIST PRICES. Why can't they just put the equipment out on bid like they would any other equipement that is needed? Who are the vendors? Who is going to bid on this? Evidently CBG requested "bids" and got prices, why can't any other buyer do the same? And just for fun, will CBG now never accept any new members? Won't it be to their advantage to add new members continually so they can garner even more "buying power"?

None of this makes sense to me.

Lastly, doen't anyone find it quite ironic that the Disney hack was all gushing about how great this CBG deal was when it was Disney that just a few weeks ago sent out that letter which stated in no uncertain terms that just because you install D-Cinema (and by jove it damn well better be 100% DCI compliant or no cartoons for you), that doesn't for a second mean that Disney will sell you product. Which I read to mean, if you were on their shit list when you had 35mm and couldn't get first run out of them, your spending umpteen hundred of $$ on D-Cinema won't change that one iota. Kinda makes you feel all warm and cuddly inside, doesn't it?!

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 04-08-2008 10:47 AM

You don't need to be a member of a buying group to purchase equipment. You can buy the stuff through many equipment dealers. The purpose of the CBG is to get the cost subsidized by studio supported financing (i.e. Virtual Print Fees).

The CBG is to provide finacing for conversions. There will probably be some limited time where new builds will get partially subsidized but long term a new build will be expected to purchase D-cinema equipment at full price just like film equipment today.

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David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 04-08-2008 11:12 AM

The equipment is easily available for anyone to buy (my dealer has sold several Barco/Dolby systems to his other clients), the only question in my mind is availability - i.e. can production timely meet the needs of both the deployment entities and those who want to buy outright. The only issue I see with buying right now is making sure your dealer and/or manufacturer commits to giving you any and all upgrades (hardware and software) to meet final DCI/SMPTE standards.

The benefit I see with CBG is the collective bargaining situation where everyone in the group gets the same deal where if you went direct to AccessIT each exhibitor's deal might be slightly different. I don't think there will be a huge difference in up front costs with CBG or direct to AccessIT since I understand the exhibitor investment levels are being dictated mostly by the studios, the difference will come in negotiating a group price on the delivery and alternate content fee rates.

I have to wonder if the studios wouldn't do VPFs (or other forms of subsidy) direct to CBG or it's members so they had to choose one of the deployment entities in order to get the financing side . . . . . I also wonder if the CBG thing was mostly behind the 10,000 screen total that AccessIT announced.

Edited to add: with CBG an exhibitor might get a better per screen maintenance cost over going direct to the manufacturer.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-10-2008 05:53 PM

quote: Frank Angel
So now that these 600 CBG members have a "deal," where does it go from here? CBG/NATO seems to be saying, "This is it, everyone who's not a member had their chance, now the deal is done."

600 members??? Frank... you're a tad bit off. Its actually close to 8000 members. That would account for most of the 10,000 screens that AccessIT recently got the funding for to equip.

Delivery can vary a little but Christie projectors are typically a month or less. As always check with the vendors so you can set your sights. The conversion does not have to take place tommrrow... it can take place as complete systems are assembled on site... and the Digital gear can be tested on site as well before the film gear is removed and sent for scrap.

Mark

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 04-10-2008 06:08 PM

The 8000 is the screen count they don't say how many locations or members that actually covers.

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Matt Fields
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 545
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 04-10-2008 09:13 PM

It is my understanding that all 8000 screens will not be participating in the AccessIT 10000 screen deal. There will be different classes of theatres (first run, second run, Drive-In, ect.) that will get treated differently.

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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-11-2008 03:20 PM

quote: Matt Fields
It is my understanding that all 8000 screens will not be participating in the AccessIT 10000 screen deal. There will be different classes of theatres (first run, second run, Drive-In, ect.) that will get treated differently.

I am in one of those CBG "classes" you speak of. Even though I am a CBG member, I still don't expect shiny new digital equipment at my drive-in any time soon. More realistically... it'll be 5-7 years from now, and then they'll probably provide me with the state of the art 2k machines that Carmike will eventually ditch.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-11-2008 07:09 PM

Actually it is up to the theater that is a CBG member if they even want digital at all. Also local servicing entities will be doing these installs... so if the folks you are using for your current film service work are digital capable and qualified then they will most likely be be doing your installs.

It is unlikely that any CBG member will be receiving used gear. Since the financing entity more than likely wants to see alll new gear to be able to keep the values up on the installed gear as much as possible. At any rate used gear isn't so bad either. We've already bought some used BARCO gear and aside fomr BARCO being one sucky company the gear after receiving the current updates is performing perfectly and with out any breakdowns.

I will say again... those dealers that choose to remain in the dark ages and just continue doing film work are doomed in just a few short years.

Mark

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-12-2008 09:50 AM

quote:
So now that these 600 CBG members have a "deal," where does it go from here? CBG/NATO seems to be saying, "This is it, everyone who's not a member had their chance, now the deal is done."

So my question is, why all this back-room dealing and skullduggery?

...

And just for fun, will CBG now never accept any new members? Won't it be to their advantage to add new members continually so they can garner even more "buying power"?

There was no skullduggery. The whole CBG thing was well known to any theatre owner who keeps up with the industry. It was also well publicized to all NATO members...that's a benefit of membership. Any owner who missed out on the original CBG group has only himself to blame, for not staying informed.

The CBG is still accepting new members, but the reason for the closed ranks of "original" members is that there had to be a specific number to plug in to the conversion deal for proposing the virtual print fees. New members MAY be able to get in on the VPF deal, but it's not guaranteed -- however the new member would be able to benefit from the buying power of the large group. The VPF will not be around forever; anyone who's considering building a new cinema now will just have to figure the cost of digital projectors into the cost of building a cinema. Therefore being a member of a buying group might provide a cost savings.

To clarify the numbers being used above, there are about 600 CBG members, who collectively control about 8,000 screens. I'm not sure about how many locations are represented -- they range from single-screens to big plexes.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-19-2008 10:20 AM

Bump.

Is this still vaporware, or has CBG and/or Access IT announced actual details on price and availability of equipment?

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David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 05-19-2008 11:13 AM

I heard details are still being finalized and will be announced in the fall (this is according to an associate of ours who is a member of CBG).

As far as I know AccessIT is still hammering out details of phase 2 (we have a building project coming up and they could not give me hard details yet)

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-19-2008 03:04 PM

What I heard from two different large D-Cinema manufacturers recently is that there are still no funds available to Access-IT to carry the plan out. I thought I had heard that they were at least approved for another 10K screens a few months back...

Mark

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-19-2008 03:24 PM

So what was the point of the April 1 announcement, then? All it says is that CBG has selected AccessIT on the basis of some terms that have not yet been specified. That seems pretty useless to me until actual numbers are stated.

What happens if AccessIT goes bust, anyway? Is there a backup vendor?

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David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 05-19-2008 03:26 PM

The press release I received in March said that Disney, Fox, Paramount and Universal agreed to support AccessIT's phase 2 - with those 4 on board they expected Sony and Warner to follow suit . . . . I guess things have not moved as quick as they thought.

On some level I think CBG chose AccessIT because the studios were resistant to paying VPFs directly to exhibitors.

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