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Topic: Major studios in deal to convert to digital movie projection

James. R. Deeter
Film Handler

Posts: 64
From: Belton, MO, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-13-2008 05:34 PM

Who orders 50,000 pairs of Real D glasses at once ???
We never have although I'd love to have that kind of attendance per film [Big Grin]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-13-2008 06:34 PM

James, My point was that you'd have to order that many to get a low enough price to be able to compete with the per cuycle pricing of the Dolby glasses.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 10-13-2008 06:37 PM

I'd love to see the math comparing *all* the costs. I find it Real hard to believe that Dolby's expensive glasses and all the attendant hassle of collecting them, installing and operating the sanitizing sytem and purchasing supplies for it and water and electricity, calling a plumber when the drain clogs up, perhaps lost shows if the dishwasher breaks down, the inevitable loss/theft, etc., works out as a better deal than Real D's 70 cents per pair, which you get to mark up 4x and you're done with them.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-13-2008 08:33 PM

Everyone's forgetting that you also charge extra for Dolby 3-D or is everyopne here offering it for free. Basically you can charge the same "extra" as would be charged for Real-D or what ever the show you are running allows you to charge.

Mark

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James. R. Deeter
Film Handler

Posts: 64
From: Belton, MO, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-14-2008 01:28 PM

and when you upcharge, the Real D glasses are free ! No added expense at all.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-14-2008 11:40 PM

quote: James. R. Deeter
and when you upcharge, the Real D glasses are free ! No added expense at all.

James,
Thats a Duh Ahh thing. Of course its a wash on the cost of the glasses... my point being that the theaters have to buy the glasses and front the cost no matter what the system. they eventually get that cost back when they sell all the glasses or in the case of Dolby's they get through the rated number of cycles(re-uses). The big difference is that to get down to the cost per cycle of the Dolby Glasses the theater would have to front alot of $$$$ to buy a ton of Real-D glasses. Normal cost for Real-D glasses is about .75 per set while the cost per set of Dolbys if you look at it per cycle since they are reusable is 20 cents. The color quality in the picture is also miles ahead of Real-D!!

Mark

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 10-15-2008 09:16 AM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Those who loose glasses can be the only ones to blame, you probably also don't have any ushers that actually help your patrons find seats or correct theater screens, you probably have a very low quality-shoestring type of operation. Really, its no big deal to install the detectors at the doorways nor are they expensive... the part that sets your alarm off is built into every pair of Dolby Glasses.

Mark, Please don't asssume things you don't know. First of all there are two issues lost glasses and broken glassses. You see, kids like to play with the glasses also and break off the arms.

Second, let's think about labor for a second. In the NY market an usher (including workers comp insurance, disability insurance, employer share of FICA) is $8.00+ per hour. You need an extra usher for glasses collection which is 2 hours at least per show. That's $16+. If I have a half full show of 100 people, that is .16 per person just to deal with the glasses.

But the big cost is the glasses themselves. Sure, if a pair really lasted 400 cycles the numbers work out great. One issues is that you need to have at minimum enough glasses for your whole seating capacity. So for most shows, you have glasses sitting there that you are not using. Even if you prevented the losing glasses, you'll still get 1 or 2 broken pairs a week if it's busy. That makes it very hard to get to 400 cycles.

If Dolby had disposeable glasses for $1 they would be the better system hands down. Even the non-disposable if they were under $10 would be a pretty easy sell. But a cost of almost $30 every time some snot nosed kid decides it's fun to bend the glasses until they break is not very palatable.

Also, the main goal of 3D in my eyes is to get more people in the door for concession sales. The 3D upcharge itself is not going to be a huge profit driver with either system.

Next time you are in NY let me know and you can go check out the low quality-shoestring operation with no ushers. I think you'll be surprised and maybe you will stop making assumptions.

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David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 10-15-2008 10:01 AM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
The big difference is that to get down to the cost per cycle of the Dolby Glasses the theater would have to front alot of $$$$ to buy a ton of Real-D glasses.

A better apples to apples comparison here would be between Dolby's glasses at $27 to the re-usable RealD glasses at $3-$5 - there may be a difference in life cycle, but you can buy 5 or more pairs of re-usable polarized glasses for 1 of Dolby.

Each system out there has its technical issues, only question is which issue are you willing to accept.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-15-2008 01:03 PM

David,

I have three customers that have researched it and will say you're very wrong based on the deals they would have gotten from Real-D. One customer is installing three Dolby systems. Second it doesn't take a whole fleet of people to take care of the glasses, face it... it's a dishwasher and it's automatic! It is generally some ushers secondary job... It takes alot less labor and time than you obviously think it does. Here in SLC over three locations since the emergence of Dolby 3-D they've had one broken pair(a lens popped out) and they lost one pair. Thirdly, it's also about quality...3-D suffers badly as it is... why make it worse with something like Real-D... the Dolby glasses have curved lenses of high quality, no need for a silver screen, and excellent coloremetry.

I guess those that really don't give a crap about quality will be the ones using Real-D.

Mark

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-15-2008 01:24 PM

I have not seen the Dolby 3D system. I have seen Real-D once ("Chicken Little"). I also do not have great 3D vision.

Is one system better than the other, cost aside?

How does the 2-projector DLP system work? Does it use regular linear polarizers and cardboard glasses like 35mm 2-strip 3D?

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-15-2008 01:27 PM

I remember when 3-D was a big deal in the '80s. I wanted to get it - because a lot of movies were coming out - but we couldn't afford it. So we lived without it, and the fad died, so I figured we'd saved a ton of money.

Now the situation is repeating itself but slightly different because the movies are definitely more high-profile this time. I would like to get 3-D again, but we still can't afford it, so we get to wait until it shakes down to the point where either there is only one major player, making the 'which-system' decision easy, OR the fad dies out again. Maybe both will happen.

Sometimes it's nice to be a small exhibitor. You guys have fun sorting this out, all right?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-15-2008 02:18 PM

Scott... here you decide...

Real-D:
Re-Occuring lease fees every year

Needs silver screen... directional and poor coloremitry.

10 bit color.

Cheap glasses with non-optical quality flat polarizer filters

D-Screen in front of lens can get askew and cause ghosting.

Glasses are non standard polarizer type neither linear nor circular...

Dolby 3-D:

You buy it you own it and the price IS reasonable.

Optical grade glasses even in the new less expensive version

Only needs a white screen to work but a gain screen helps even more. 10 bit color.

Color wheel mounts in light path of projector... usually in front of integrator rod. Nothing to go askew.

Cleaning machine similar to Dishwasher needed to sterilize glasses. New style glasses are re-usable for over 400 cycles.

You need to go see both before you decide which looks best. I've seen both many times and for me its a hands down Dolby win.

Dual Projector:

Need to be stacked to keep lenses as close to each other as possible... side by side doesn't work well.

Server puts out seperate "left eye" - "Right Eye" data one eye per HDSDI link. One eye's data feeds each machine. Color is only 10 bit. Can be either linear polarized, circular polarized or dual active Dolby 3-D.

Mark

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James. R. Deeter
Film Handler

Posts: 64
From: Belton, MO, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-15-2008 02:48 PM

Mark, my point is that by upcharging for the 3-D ticket, we have never ever had to pay for any glasses from Real-D. We never have received any invoice and we get box after box of glasses anytime we run a 3-D movie in the Real-D system.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-15-2008 03:57 PM

James,

In case you were not aware nothing is free... these are "for profit" companies!! I can guarantee you that you are paying and that it's Real-D thats hauling off your profit... one way or another... of course you do not pay directly when you order your glasses but... you're paying as either as part of your yearly contract or from the percentage that Real-D gets off each ticket sold. Hey that last one... thats another real disadvantage!

Mark

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 10-15-2008 05:16 PM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
of course you do not pay directly when you order your glasses

I must have missed something along the way because I was under the impression from previous posts that exhibitors had to buy the Real-D glasses for somewhere around 75 cents a pair. If they in fact pay a license fee to Real-D of 75 cents per ticket, but are not invoiced for glasses, that seems like an important distinction.

Is Real-D still selling lots of new installs? And what about Dolby?

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