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Topic: KDM delivery via modem....

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-04-2008 06:18 PM

quote: David Zylstra
With the Cinedigm solution the studios are OK with 1 POTS line per theatre.

Sure, thats assuming that ONLY cinedigm is going to be calling with your KDM's... but thats not going to be the case in real life! What do you do if Sony is loading KDm's and Technicolor is trying to call to drop in your Disney KDM's? You would hope it would do an automatic call back but then nothing's perfect in this world.

Mark

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-04-2008 06:19 PM

quote: David Zylstra
This has been talked about, but since the studios are trying to be in control here they won't let it happen.

There are tons of ways for the studios to be in control, so that's a bogus argument. In fact I'd go a step further. When you deliver the content into the system, have the server go out to the net and get the damn key itself. The content can even tell the server where to go to get it. This isn't rocket science.

I wonder if the studios (and most of the employees including the executives) trust the web enough to do their banking online.

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Brad Allen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 12-04-2008 07:38 PM

Over the past 6 years, my DSL service has been much, much more reliable than the POTS.
Both from AT&T over the same wire.
Many times been without phone service for a couple of days, while the DSL keeps chugging right along.

quote: Mark J. Marshall
There are tons of ways for the studios to be in control, so that's a bogus argument. In fact I'd go a step further. When you deliver the content into the system, have the server go out to the net and get the damn key itself. The content can even tell the server where to go to get it. This isn't rocket science.

Exactly Mark, that's the way it should be done. Having a requirement for a POTS line is rediculous. POTS is fine IF you don't have broadband available.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 12-05-2008 12:31 AM

Reality check:

In most places, a commercial, bare bones POTS line runs somewhere between $25 and $40 per month.

With the other costs of digital and 3D being buried under all the vague reasons why we should have already installed it, why such a debate over pocket change?

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-05-2008 02:18 AM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Sure, thats assuming that ONLY cinedigm is going to be calling with your KDM's... but thats not going to be the case in real life! What do you do if Sony is loading KDm's and Technicolor is trying to call to drop in your Disney KDM's? You would hope it would do an automatic call back but then nothing's perfect in this world.

I will repeat: we have been recieving all of our KDM's via modem for months without a single problem. One line for the location, hooked up to the LMS.

I can't really see how this is any sort of an issue at all....

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-05-2008 08:18 AM

quote: Dustin Mitchell
I will repeat: we have been recieving all of our KDM's via modem for months without a single problem. One line for the location, hooked up to the LMS.

I can't really see how this is any sort of an issue at all....

There is some question by at least one server manufacturer as to if they will allow them to continue being delivered to the LMS or not.....

Mark

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

posted 12-05-2008 10:23 AM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
There is some question by at least one server manufacturer as to if they will allow them to continue being delivered to the LMS or not.....

Mark, What's the LMS, and assuming that it's something somewhere in the theatre why should they not allow the keys to be delivered there? The keys are not going to work anywhere else if somebody does manage to steal them, are they?

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David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 12-05-2008 10:55 AM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Sure, thats assuming that ONLY cinedigm is going to be calling with your KDM's

Actually Cindigm sends their KDMs via satellite, currently Deluxe and Technicolor use the modems. I have not heard of any conflicts with transfers, I assume they simply queue it up and it redials when busy.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
What do you do if Sony is loading KDm's and Technicolor is trying to call to drop in your Disney KDM's?

This problem still exists with 1 line per auditorium since the studios are authorizing all KDMs in a facility.

quote: Jack Ondracek
With the other costs of digital and 3D being buried under all the vague reasons why we should have already installed it, why such a debate over pocket change?

What if you are Regal - 552 location 6800 screens . . . . 1 $25 line per location is $165,000 per year wasted for less than a few minutes of KDM transfer per week - Regal can easily absorb the low bandwidth KDM transfer into their corporate WAN with no additional cost. Yes $165,000 may be pocket change in Regal's multi million dollar world, but it is still a significant number that can be brought as profit to the bottom line.

quote:
There are tons of ways for the studios to be in control, so that's a bogus argument. When you deliver the content into the system, have the server go out to the net and get the damn key itself. The content can even tell the server where to go to get it. This isn't rocket science.

Tell that to the studios - I was in the room when this was brought up, the studio people didn't like the idea too much; they want to control the delivery of the KDM to the facility.

The NATO DC System Requirements document addresses a lot of these topics, but we'll see how the studios respond when certain items are pushed - it will take the large exhibitors to refuse to put modems in for modems to become a moot point.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
There is some question by at least one server manufacturer as to if they will allow them to continue being delivered to the LMS or not.....

The "Multiplex Theatre Architecture" diagram in DCI spec 1.2 shows only 1 modem plugged into the TMS so my interpretation is 1 modem per building if there is a TMS.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-05-2008 11:52 AM

Agreed with Jack; I don't understand the whining about the cost of POTS lines. It's in the DCI specification. If you want to play DCI movies, then you need to have equipment that meets that specification. If you don't like the specification, then you have the option of showing 35mm or trying to convince DCI to change the specification.

POTS lines are relatively inexpensive and have a number of characteristics that aren't met by other communication media, so it's not exactly an unreasonable requirement.

As for control of key delivery, I can only guess that perhaps the film distributors don't want to lose shows because (typically under-trained and under-paid) theatre employees can't figure out how to download keys and transfer them to the servers.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-05-2008 12:11 PM

quote: David Zylstra
Tell that to the studios - I was in the room when this was brought up, the studio people didn't like the idea too much; they want to control the delivery of the KDM to the facility.

It's not my job to tell the studios, they have people that do that. If those people didn't listen to the execs and explain to them how the key server solution could address every single one of their concerns, that's not my fault.

And you're absolutely correct about the way those $25 POTS line costs add up.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 12-05-2008 09:03 PM

quote: Scott Norwood
As for control of key delivery, I can only guess that perhaps the film distributors don't want to lose shows because (typically under-trained and under-paid) theatre employees can't figure out how to download keys and transfer them to the servers.

If these employees are so dumb then wouldn't they be too dumb to load the movies to begin with since most of the time they're sent on hard disks?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-06-2008 04:06 AM

quote: Stephen Furley
Mark, What's the LMS

Library Management Server(or system). Yes, it works fine this way as the normal every day LMS does distribute the KDM's to the correct theaters servers but of course its total control the studios are after...

Mark

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Tristan Lane
Master Film Handler

Posts: 444
From: Nampa, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-09-2008 11:31 AM

quote: Jack Ondracek
In most places, a commercial, bare bones POTS line runs somewhere between $25 and $40 per month.

Try 12.00 a month in our neck of the woods. Qwest charges that rate for a line with no options. If your site is already utilizing DSL through Qwest, you already have a POTS coming into your building.

I think that they key delivery system is still too much in it's infancy to determine the permanent method that will be used. All Cinedigm sites have "quirks" involving key delivery. If Keys are dropped to the LMS during show playback or transfers, there is a high likelyhood that the transfer will be interrupted. In some cases, playback was affected as well. Granted this has to happen DURING playback or transfer. Keys are routinely dropped during off-hours to minimize effect on the theaters, but it proves that there is still a lot of work to be done.

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