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Author Topic: Christie CP2000-M and hidden bulb cost Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-01-2009 08:14 AM                     Its funny because now that they are run by a board of directors and not by Ray Dolby they make a funny habbit of mentioning in class that they are a "For Profit Company" like before under Ray's guidance they weren't... Anyway "For Profit" is an understatement. The other funny thing is that the whole kit as bought from BARCO is about 8 grand or so. Go figure.... Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-01-2009 11:23 AM                     Oh, there is defintely a new mantra at Dolby now that they are a public company. It isn't that Dolby was not interested in profit when it was a private company...just that it only had to answer to one person...Ray...if he wanted to lose money...that was his choice. He could have his pet projects. If he wanted to create a screening room...have a place for a mini-grand piano...well...thats his call. No ROE had to be done. Now, everything Dolby does has to have its investors in mind...that is just life when you have outside agencies ensuring you acting responsibly (a bit of a joke in our current financial "crisis", I know). The Barco pricing thing you refer to...and not correctly, I might add...relates to a system that includes it factory installed in a DP2000...ONLY. Who knows how Barco robs Peter to Pay Paul to make their system attractive. BTW...in a Barco, one is not likely to damage their Dolby filter wheel in the first place. There is not only the filter in the front of the lamphouse that the lamp would have to go through...it would also need to break free of the front lamp support and finally, it would have to turn 90-degrees. I'm much less familiar with NEC...but from what I can tell, Christie's projectors are most vunerable to having lamp bits going forward into the color wheel or the integrating rod. Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-01-2009 01:35 PM                     NEC is also at a right angle. Even with the right angle machines the odds would probably be 50-50. More like 90-10 with the Christie though... but thats also how Christie gets more light out of their projectors. I may develop an extra glass optical flat myself to place in these Dolby/Christie systems. A second optical flat at the input side of the snood would almost completely eliminate any chance of loosing the wheel. Again, Its a stupid design and obvious problem and Dolby should really step to bat and fix the problem themselves. They are certainly going to loose customers over the cost of that wheel!! Mark  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-05-2009 11:32 PM                     Ok, there's no more hidden lamp cost with this model. I thought I'd dredge this one up and post some results we got from an actual production M running a CXL-16HS lamp. This is one of he cheapest cimema lamps one can buy. 20 foot wide Harkness matte white perf screen (in reality a bit more than 1.0 gain) 54 amps or 1054 watts for 18 fl in flat 62 amps or 1210 watts for 18 fl in scope Now that makes the M THE LEAST EXPENSIVE D-Cinema projector to operate. A new forth comming short gap 1600 watt lamp will help bridge the gap between the the CXL-16HS and the more expensive 20SD lamp. Mark  |  IP: Logged Tristan Lane Master Film Handler Posts: 444 From: Nampa, Idaho Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-06-2009 12:12 AM                     It appears to me that generally in the past few years, Christie has always come out a little ahead on both build quality, and performance in regards to their projectors. I'm not a huge fan of Barco, and have limited experience with NEC, but have seen enough product to know that I would prefer to service the Christie equipment. Performance and Support cannot be argued when comparing the brands (excluding 3rd party support, which Barco relies heavily on) Splitting hairs over lamp cost doesn't seem to make much sense in this case. The "hidden costs" just don't add up. The M consumes far less power, only requires single phase 220, and can be placed in a very small area. Some of these points might not be valid for existing builds, but for new construction, it can make or break the ability to size a projector accordingly when the competing companies offer something that come short of hitting the mark for light output.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-06-2009 08:39 AM                     Tristian, Actually I take lamp costs into account when specing new systems... the CHristie software also does this and provides a yearly lamp cost figure. I prefer to be able to operate these systems if at all possible with regular cinema lamps as this can cut lamp cost in half in many cases. And the 20SD lamp is quite expensive to purchase and to operate even with the smaller amount of power consumed. The lamp only has a 1200 hour warranteed life and lists for near $1200.00!! Now this is still far less expensive to operate than the small NEC projector that uses the Cermax lamp... those are a bit over 2 grand. So both 1600 watt lamps obviously bring using this projector well into the reality zone. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-06-2009 08:48 AM                     I don't think it can be argued that Christie is the cheapest to own (in any size category). I would not say they are the most refined of the offerings though. It is weird...Christie is ahead of the others in HDCP compliance on their projectors, behind HDCP compliance on their alternative content switcher. Christie is ahead of the others in brightness but behind the others in lamp changes when it involves size differences (between 2D and 3D). With Christie, you need to have booth personnel able to remove adapters, add adapters and/or move front lamp supports around (without destroying the hardware over time). Except the SB, unless you have a dedicated PC/Laptop, one also needs to use their CDP to record lamp changes (again at the booth personnel level)...way too cumbersom. Barco, with their lamp module...sure it is uber-expensive, BUT you can have 2D and 3D lamps pre-loaded and aligned. Christie is behind the curve on motorized zoom lenses (the M being their first)...NEC was the first out of the gate with that and Barco is now 100% motorized lens. It may not seem like a big deal but when one goes between Scope/Flat on a constant-width screen, without motorized zoom, the installer either needs to depend on the booth people to zoom the lens (and possibly refocus, and possibly lens shift), or throw away pixels on Scope. With NEC or Barco...the lens position/zoom can be set into the presets. I really don't see any clear winner in every situation. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-06-2009 10:22 AM                     quote: Steve Guttag With Christie, you need to have booth personnel able to remove adapters, add adapters and/or move front lamp supports around (without destroying the hardware over time). Its easy to have adaptors on each lamp ready to install them. This eliminates the need for fiddling with lamp adaptors at all. Barco don't forget also has lamp adaptors and so does NEC. For on the fly 2-D/3-D changes you can't beat BARCO's lamp module but do the new BARCO's have this feature? That DP-100 lamp module only costs about 15 grand. Lamp adaptors cost about 50 bucks. As for lamp change info... I don't see any real difference in using BARCO's Touch screen or Christies CDP. Either way you have to go in and select "New Lamp" in one fashion or another and then choose the lamp from the drop down box. Then enter the serial number. Yous gets there by the same means in both cases... ditto for the SB. The BARCO has fewer lamps to select from allowing a greater chance of overdriving a lamp as you have to choose the closest thing that you are installing to. Please note that at least on the DP-100 the motorized lens mount was an expensive option as was the constant light feature. I don't know of any DP-100's that have motorized zoom. Christie is releasing a new motorized zoom controler that will be retrofitable to all Christie projectors without it. This will happen around Show West. I find both BARCO and Christie as easy to service and work on and build quality is comparable with Christie edging them out. Christie also has their patented ultra lens coating on all optical components in the light chain that the other two manufacturers don't have. Christies are by far the best engineered projectors made and all one need do is look at the insides of one... it shows and its obvious. NEC's are rats nests and not very tidy inside... they look haphazardly engineered. BARCO made some bad design mistakes in the negative lamp fitting in the DP100 lamp module... don't overtighten them or it'll snap in half leaving you without an operable lamp module till a new fitting arrives. That brass fitting should be made from stainless steel instead. They also have the huge connector pins that plug directly into the ignitor... another bad design in which if the pin burns up it also destroys an $1800.00 ignitor! Christie on the other hand surprisingly went with a very common IREM ignitor that is in a seperate compartment and cable connected. Doing the screen file setups, MCGD, and other aspects of the light engine setup on any of the brands is made equally as easy by utilizing the T.I. Software instead of the manufacturers version which is merely an interface to the actual T.I. Software itself. The T.I. Software is generally much more difficult at first to understand and use... it IS engineering software after all, not user software... but it offers far more control and much finer adjustment than any of the manufacturers interfaces... Barco's included. Barco's is the easiest interface of them all for the inexperienced or those that are not doing many setups, etc. Also note that no matter who's projector you work on with the T.I. software the Manufacturers interface software will reflect what ever settings you load in via the T.I. software. This still allows saving settings and other files as normal. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-06-2009 12:47 PM                     Things have been refined on the current Barcos...including the lamphouses. For the record, the DP100 lamphouse was not $15,000...ever...it currently "LISTS" for $8,700.00 As for the Christie adapters to use say a CXL-20...list is $367.00. Not anywhere near the cost of a lamphouse, for sure but they don't have reflectors, heat filters and lamp adjust mechanisms so it isn't a fair cost comparison. However...lets say you are switching from a CDXL-20 to a CDXL-60...then your front lamp support also is changing around...no matter how you cut it, that support, hardware and mount are going to be much more worse for wear. Leaving the adapters on is okay...until they throw them away. I agree that changing the lamp in the Barco lamphouse is not a vacation though. As for motorized lenses...all of the current projectors use motorized lenses, standard. On the DP100, they only briefly even offered it. As I said, Christie is behind the curve on motorized lenses...only the M currently has it...not that they won't hae motorized version for the rest later...I also believe that the CineIPM will be HDCP compliant...someday...Barco's ACS-2048 was always HDCP compliant but the DP3000 is NOT...just odd crap like that. Christie can use motorized anamorphics or WCLs on ALL of their projectors, Barco, just on the DP3000. Barco was first in .98" chip projectors with full-frame triple flash...Christie just has their production "M"s out now that have that. Christie now has full-frame triple flash on their 1.2" machine, Barco is holding off on the DP3000 (their only 1.2" machine now) until the next board revision due out this year by TI to avoid a potential double-upgrade. As for the CDP....I hate it...very slow and entering a serial number on it is painful. Not so bad on the PC-Touch panel on the Barco. Also not so bad on the TPS of the Christie "SB/XB" As for color calibration...Barco is definitely more refined...Barco also has you CHECK your results...something Christie really should impliment. Every tech I've asked that has set up Christies...including Christie Factory techs...after they shoot their colors...I asked...so did you verify that all four colors are reading proper after correction? NONE ever did! With Barco, it is just a natural part of the color set up....very smart. BTW...same with Dolby 3D...VERIFY one's colors are right...I've had the colors "not take" and you get bizzar results...it too rebooting the system, then reshooting the colors to get proper results. Don't believe just because you key some numbers in that it actually is doing it! For alternative content, I've definately had better results in formatting on Barco than on Christie. For DCinema...both are excellent. Steve  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 03-06-2009 12:57 PM                       In my limited but growing experience with both projectors, I find I agree with Steve's overall outline on the features. I look forward to Christie's motorized adaptor for the ZX.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-06-2009 01:04 PM                     quote: BTW...same with Dolby 3D...VERIFY one's colors are right...I've had the colors "not take" and you get bizzar results...it too rebooting the system, then reshooting the colors to get proper results. Don't believe just because you key some numbers in that it actually is doing it! Just another perfect reason to be using the T.I. software. Its all there and you're talking directly to the light engine... Dolby 3-D aside who's correction is done in the show player and not the projector. Bypassing the manufacturers interface software during setup definately has advantages and what you see in the manufacturers interface software is in many cases no more than just a different reflection of the T.I. software anyway. Communicating direct with the real thing from my experience is the best way to go and it can be done with all projectors out there from just one comprehensive set up program! Mark  |  IP: Logged

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