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Topic: 3D or not 3D? ... an article in Time Magazine

Jack Theakston
Master Film Handler

Posts: 411
From: New York, USA
Registered: Sep 2007

posted 04-05-2009 05:05 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
dim light does not in, and of itself, cause eye strain...or at least it hasn't with me.

Studies show that trying to focus in low-light situations can cause eye strain. Again, the book in the dark situation. Not everyone does, because eyesight is subjective, obviously.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-05-2009 06:11 PM

There are a lot of people that have worked in "dark rooms" and never complained of eye strain.

Then again, I do not wear sun glasses either, never have. I tend to allow my irises and eyes do their thing. Furthermore, I think that showing movies, for me has helped my eyesight a great deal. While in school, I would be reading books/computer close up and then switch to focusing a screen at over 80-feet away (I worked large theatres mostly and the throws were typically from 70-feet to 120-feet) really exercised my eyes (lenses and iris) and is the prime reason that at 44, I still don't need glasses to drive legally...despite everyone in my family needing them in grade school. I also did a lot of dark room work, once upon a time...again it tends to get one's iris a work out.

I'm wondering if the "eye strain" is nothing more than the effect of one working out those muscles they have not used enought....kinda like doing exercise for the first time after a period...those muscles you used tend to ache afterwards. If you do it more often, you will build up those muscles and not have the aches.

However, I can only speak for myself on eye strain...dark/bright/near/far...none of it causes me particular eye strain. As I age, I notice the recovery time going from near to far (or vice-versa) is longer than in my yute. I'm most defintely near-sighted and always have been...I've just been able to keep it at bay thus far.

As for studies...I dunno...I've found you can get a study to show most anything you want it to show.

I've also noticed that those that NEED lots of light to read/work CAN'T work in the low light...it doesn't seem like a benefit to me. I, on the other hand, can work in a much wider range of light levels comfortably.

Steve

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-05-2009 07:21 PM

First off all people I know that did darkrrom work relied far more on feel of where thngs were than by the usual 7 watt equivelent safelight... or in color Darkroom work there is no safelight at all... so dim light in a dark room is of little factor at all. In fact even when working with B&W no light in the Darkrrom is best.

quote: Steve Guttag
I tend to allow my irises and eyes do their thing.

I used to feel the same way until I moved out west, never wore sun glasses or any eye protection at all. While your own iris's may compensate for change in light levels the UV and IR is very definately gonna get you no matter what. I have worn UV(polarizing) type eye protection when I drive for years now. It not only makes driving much safer but your eyes are not going to suffer from IR and UV in the long haul... they very definately will without any protection... just ask any good opthamologist.

Ha... Just wait till you turn 50!!!

Mark

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-05-2009 07:37 PM

quote: Lyle Romer
by the time avatar hits they're going to have enough screens (3000+) to go 3D exclusively.

I don't think that'll ever happen. Don't most complexes have 2 or possibly three 3-D houses, tops? Avatar could blow its wad in 2 weeks, but if it has any kind of legs they'll want to keep it playing longer, but if the next 3D blockbuster is waiting in the wings, they will want to give that the biggest houses. So a 2-D version will be made available, I'd bet.

Besides, even if there are 3,000 screens, that is a far cry from the 5 or 6 thousand that serve up a huge blockbuster these days.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 04-05-2009 07:39 PM

That's when the parts start to fall off. Louis

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-05-2009 08:25 PM

Oddly enough...30 was the big year for me in terms of aging. 40, not so much. Perhaps I noticed it most since at 25, I was at my peak in terms of stamina and most everything else.

As to darkroom work...I could see very easily by safelight. And I mean a single safelight in a relatively large space.

I did okay doing color in the dark too...but as Mark said...that is all by feel or familiarity. I mostly used a changing bag to handle the negatives/slide film into the reels (metal or plastic...once upon a time, metal was required). My darkroom timer (Heathkit PT-1500) had foot pedals which made activating the timer in the dark easy (never hit the focus pedal by mistake). There was also a lockout on the enlarger to hit the timer with the color filters out by mistake.

I'm pleased to say that all of my B/W and Color darkroom work seems to be holding up to this day. At least the stuff I've seen on a daily basis.

Steve

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-05-2009 08:44 PM

quote: Louis Bornwasser
That's when the parts start to fall off. Louis

Ha, thats really a good one Louis but you are 100% correct!!! Steve just hasn't gotten there has he...? Speaking of Stamina I was out hiking around some old mines up in the mountains about 7800 feet above Eureka, Utaw today. That altitude plus climbing almost straight up the mine dumps will test anyone's stamina really well!!

Mark

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Jack Theakston
Master Film Handler

Posts: 411
From: New York, USA
Registered: Sep 2007

posted 04-05-2009 10:05 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
There are a lot of people that have worked in "dark rooms" and never complained of eye strain.

Difference is that most people who work in dark rooms aren't reading or in this case, focusing on a deciphering a particular image. Your brain "knows" where everything is from seeing a room in normal light before you dim the lights.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-05-2009 10:42 PM

Also--- When focusing the enlarger projected image with the aid of a grain magnifier the image you're looking at is actually quite bright... even the dark areas of a negative appear quite bright with the magnifier.

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-06-2009 06:55 AM

Not really true...you do a bunch of critical looking in the dark in a darkroom...including when developing the image.

Steve

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-06-2009 07:51 AM

Yes, one does do critical looking at composing an image you're going to expose but that image at least from my enlarger(Omega D-5) is pretty darn bright even at f-4. Paper should always be fully developed and a timer or stop watch should also be used here as well. Full development creates the proper contrast range a given paper is capable of providing. Under developed prints are not always stable over the long haul nor will they exhibit the proper contrast range. Sure one can pull out an over exposed print early from the soups in attempt to save it but that's not the correct method of printing/processing paper.

Mark

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 04-06-2009 11:23 AM

According to boxofficemojo Monsters vs. Aliens fell 43% in week 2 on 3D screens vs 45% on 2D screens. It doesn't look like 3D is creating any kind of incredible legs. All it's doing is giving incremental revenue to the studio (since the theater's share of it is just going to pay for the 3D equipment).

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Jack Theakston
Master Film Handler

Posts: 411
From: New York, USA
Registered: Sep 2007

posted 04-06-2009 11:55 AM

Steve, granted, and you've probably got very good eyesight to boot. But everyone else's eyes are not as good as yours.

From the Mayo Clinic:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/eyestrain/DS01084/DSECTION=causes

quote:
Common causes of eyestrain include:

* Extended use of a computer or video monitor
* Reading for extended periods
* Exposure to bright light or glare
* Straining to see in very dim light

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-06-2009 01:18 PM

Jack,

I think the key there is "straining" to see in very dim light...that is a self-defining definition. Strain caused by straining. I don't "strain"...my eyes just adapt and everything looks normal. Mind you...as the light levels lower, color perception goes down...my eyes are still bound by that.

Mark...as to development times...I've always judged my B&W stuff during development...it is one of the many controls as well as other techniques I did during development to create a look I was going for.

I was not a lab in the sense that I'm WAS trying to put my technique into the final outcome...not merely processing the image. I also experimented a lot to get different looks...who didn't in their darkroom?

As for equipment...I used a Bessler 23CII w/dual-dichro color head. I processed B&W negative, C-41 color negative, E-6 reversal, Cibachrome paper (slide to print), Ilford paper/film (B&W) and yes Kodak paper/film in B&W or color. I did all of the color papers in drums...I could handle up to 16 x 20

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Jack Theakston
Master Film Handler

Posts: 411
From: New York, USA
Registered: Sep 2007

posted 04-06-2009 06:52 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
I think the key there is "straining" to see in very dim light...that is a self-defining definition. Strain caused by straining. I don't "strain"...my eyes just adapt and everything looks normal. Mind you...as the light levels lower, color perception goes down...my eyes are still bound by that.

Exactly. What I might strain to see in a dim room you may not. That's why it's subjective. But that's why an acceptable light level should be mandatory if 3D is to survive this time around.

Of course, with the overhead price on 3D in a recession, less people are going to go in the first place.

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