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Author Topic: What is the logical choice in Digital investment? Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-01-2009 07:16 AM                    John: quote: James B Gardiner Going digital for cinema is not really up to cinemas. It's not? If the cinemas don't switch, then how will the studios play their movies? quote: James B Gardiner Landfill full of film is something we need to fix just as much as the global warming issue. I'm not sure how to take this since the global warming issue has now been shown to be at least based on bad and purposely manipulated data and at worst is a flat out scam. (We can debate that in another thread or offline if you like.) Not to mention film is recycled, if I'm not mistaken.  |  IP: Logged James B Gardiner Film Handler Posts: 91 From: North Altona, Victoria, Ausrtalia Registered: Feb 2009 posted 12-02-2009 04:57 AM                     Film can be recycled. Rarely is. Just because something can happen does not mean it does. There is no economical advantage to do it. So its not going to happen (Often). eCinema is already causing a huge impact in many parts (Usually third world countries) of the world. Film is near no longer used. Maybe it is a hard transition, but ultimately, if you where a hard line film location, those who do accept change/(Evolution) will have an advantage over you. Those who cannot evolve will be the collateral example of Darwinism. You are free to disagree, but don;t be surprised if this is the result. What do we call a blacksmith these days? A mechanic. What are you?  |  IP: Logged Jack Theakston Master Film Handler Posts: 411 From: New York, USA Registered: Sep 2007 posted 12-02-2009 12:17 PM                     quote: James B Gardiner Rarely is. Just because something can happen does not mean it does. There is no economical advantage to do it. So its not going to happen (Often). Guess what the reels you get your films on are made out of.  |  IP: Logged Peter Castle Expert Film Handler Posts: 220 From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia Registered: Oct 2003 posted 12-02-2009 03:56 PM                     Film prints in Australia are not delivered on reels. They are in cardboard boxes on cores. I've barely seen a reel in years (apart from the ones we have in the booth).  |  IP: Logged Jack Theakston Master Film Handler Posts: 411 From: New York, USA Registered: Sep 2007 posted 12-02-2009 03:59 PM                     What a sure-fire way to have your brand new print damaged. Here in the States, much of the plastic is recycled into shipping reels (or so I am told by one of the disposal companies).  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 12-02-2009 05:34 PM                     So, what do they recycle the empty shipping reels into - once the film itself is recylcled into shipping reels? Compare weight - how many shipping reels could a full length feature film be made into? Yes, there are never enough shipping reels. I think a better fake explanation to comfort people would be: 'They recycle movies into wall insulation foam. SpiderMan3 saves the planet. Again.' - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Jack Theakston Master Film Handler Posts: 411 From: New York, USA Registered: Sep 2007 posted 12-02-2009 06:20 PM                     Certain plastics can be re-used only so many times until they start to lose their chemical structure. I don't know if this is true of polyester or not, but alternatively, polyester can be chemically decomposed into a number of useful industrial chemicals. The myth of polyester film being the most environmentally unfriendly products in the industry is just that-- a myth.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-02-2009 06:46 PM                    quote: Peter Castle Film prints in Australia are not delivered on reels. Yeah, but James isn't from Australia. He's from some place called "Ausrtalia"  |  IP: Logged Phil Blake Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 558 From: esperance western australia Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-25-2009 06:44 PM                        Peter is right , we never receive film on reels anymore ,as he quoted they are shipped in cardboard on cores and stay on cores until junked. Our film exchange is short on storage space they junk nearly all new release prints as they return to them so most only see one run at cinema then off to landfill.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Jones Master Film Handler Posts: 314 From: Geelong Victoria Australia Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-26-2009 07:19 PM                     Thats right Phill, a few weeks ago I returned 5 prints which were all new prints by the way, when the courier unloaded them at despatch the guy took them staight to the dumpster ready to be carted away to be destroyed.Some of our prints do go to N.Z but not sure how many or how they decide which ones go.  |  IP: Logged Ronda Fitzsimmons Film Handler Posts: 75 From: Pottstown, PA, USA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 03-02-2010 10:40 AM                        To get back on topic here - there are some reasons to go digital, at least partially. After years in the move-over business, I've started once again to hear the old refrain - no prints... Sorry... As more of our local theatres go to digital projection, I expect to hear that more and more. My struggle as a small indy is to figure out how to make the very expensive conversion, since the film companies aren't going to offer me and VPFs to offset my conversion costs. The occational used system does come up for sale, but talk about a short life span! Yikes! Ideally, I'd like to see a lower level digital presentation available for the intermittant market. One of the local art houses here already has installed an off the shelf digital projector with a blueray/dvd player. E-cinema would work for us, if the major companies would accept it. Our screens are mostly small, and the economics of d-cinema are still pretty crazy, when you consider a damn good computer and a damn good projector are available commercially for well under $10K/screen. For us the economics of e-cinema do make sense - no more scratched prints, cleaner sound, easy setup/projection, lower operating costs. I can easily offset the cost of the conversion, even allowing for equipment replacement in a shorter life-cycle. So why doesn't this make sense for d-cinema as well? Too many hands in the pot, imho...  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-02-2010 11:17 AM                     Whatever you do a single chip DLP cannot beat a 3 Chip DLP. Buying a residential or commerical 3 Chip DLP projector will yield to high ammounts of money and since you are talking Cinema, you need a substantial amount of light. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Todd McCracken Master Film Handler Posts: 263 From: Northridge, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2008 posted 03-04-2010 02:17 PM                    Ronda, Don't know if your part of NATO but if you are Im fairly sure there are VPF plans available. We have had a few NATO sites get added to our Phase 2 Rollout, and more coming from what I hear. http://www.cbgpurchasing.com/  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-07-2010 06:19 PM                     Actually the CBG deal is bad, bad, bad all the way around even for the bigger indies. Too costly, too many extras you have to pay.. like using the D-Cinema for your pre-show and extra showings plus un-needed and overly priced service. Sadly, the NATO guy in charge of D-Cinema doesn't have a single D-cinema install in his own theaters! Mark  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 03-08-2010 09:39 AM                     I would not say the CBG (or Cinedigm) deal is completely bad. The cost of using the projectors for ad shows is minimal when compared to purchasing a secondary video projector that gives a quality on screen picture - the larger cost is the additional lamp usage on the digital projector - and don't forget the resulting picture quality if you do use the digitals for the ad show could help increase sales. (although if you already have preshow ad projectors you have no requirement to switch to the digital ones so the cost issue could be moot) Yes, the service is on the expensive side for the smaller exhbitors - but the labor component is not too far away from what a 35mm service contract will cost you and the total per screen price includes any and all non-consumable parts (i.e. the exhibitor does not have to pay for any parts for the term of the contract). If you look at the economics . . . . pay $60,000-$90,000 per screen up front for your equipment or pay much less under a VPF deal with higher yearly costs - conceivably you could pay less overall even with paying for the yearly service contract. Don't forget that with some integrators you also get access to their alternate content lineup - granted there are fees involved, but you probably won't be able to run their content outside of their network. As to the CBG head who does not have digital himself - well, I know the previous head advocated NOT installing any digital until there was a VPF deal in place because the more units that get installed the less incentive the studios have to move forward with VPFs, sounds logical to me. I assume the current CBG-NATO head has the same thoughts. I have both phase 1 and phase 2 Cinedigm buildings - I know the economics of the various deals and while there are fees involved I don't like, overall getting the projectors paid for by a third party makes sense if you can accept the contracted responsibilities. I suggest that exhbitors explore all available options for themselves and make their own judgement on each one. The big question in my mind is how will 4K factor into phase 2 and the CBG deal - as far as I know all the economics are based on 2K pricing. Personally I think waiting to evaluate the 4K options is the way to go, or at least buy one that can be easily converted once the parts are available.  |  IP: Logged

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