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Topic: Will 4K be the next 70mm?
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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 05-07-2011 07:51 AM
Brian Guckian has reminded me of this very relevant Film-Tech Topic that proves that with proper handling new prints of classic films could last very long: http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/f1/t007816/p1.html
quote: Tom Petrov
Ramon, I get what you are saying about filmakers using and advocating film and such....but those directors who are talking are far and in between.
I know Tom, this is why I am referring only to classic titles presented on film. I would hope this should be achievable.
Also, as for the film directors who still prefer film over digital and whilst this is still financially possible (hopefully for some years to come) I would hope that major cities retain film screening facilities to show these films.
It is my believe that premiere cinemas in major cities should be able to handle properly different formats. This is something that separates proper cinemas from home cinema, their ability to handle different media, 35mm, 70mm, digital, 3-D both interlocked/single strip 35mm and digital, and (one can only wish although this is very difficult) nitrate! We are lucky that they show nitrate prints in London from time to time. They should be proud of this and market it correctly, being pedagogic about the different supports that have brought images to the screen throughout the years.
There are many of us, within this forum and in many others that appreciate very much film done right and it would be good to keep it going, albeit on a limited basis for classic films that are reprinted.
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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 05-07-2011 09:35 AM
quote: Carsten Kurz
Ramon, just pause two seconds and think how you can assure that prints are handled properly. I can't see it. Then think how much easier this is with digital from the viewpoint of the distries. DCP/harddisc destroyed, lost, whatever - don't care, send out a new harddisc. With 4k releases, they will not even accept the quality aspect anymore.
Sorry Ramon, nothing but wishful thinking.
Carsten, I know that many things in cinema and life in general are wishful thinking. Many, many populations that had cinemas do not have cinemas anymore, there is no business case anymore (even with digital) to have a cinema open there. For me to find an acceptable cinema screen where to see movies it can take me a lot of travelling (I live in the outskirts of London), why? Most multiplexes have truly crappy small cinemas and just one or two good screens and many do not tell you where your film is being shown and so my desire to see a film on a big screen with a quality greater than 2K is certainly wishful thinking.
I read somewhere that even Youtube has capacity for 4K.
I was not talking about current distribution practices, I was talking about specialised cinemas in big markets where there is an audience for classic films shown on film.
You ask about ensuring that the prints are handled properly. Well, you need to setup a strict set of rules and also a strict monitoring system, in this forum we have the experts but I would imagine using changeovers only, film-guard, … I am sure there are many good unemployed projectionists these days that could do a good job. What I would like is for film exhibition of 20th century films to continue. I think the expertise and knowledge to do it is out there, with plenty of that expertise within this forum. I honestly think that as film exhibition becomes rarer, cinema events like showing film properly may have an audience. It requires proper marketing of the experience though and the digital advocates have done a lot of malicious damage to film calling it obsolete and dreadful and by nature defective.
As to today’s exhibition? I am not an expert and it would be arrogant to predict anything, as a consumer I dread the current multiplexes and the low bar of 2K, I was there during cinema’s exhibition heydays and this downfall is just sad. Digital could have helped (it still can) bring back something like Cinerama. Imagine the huge curved screen with three 4K digital projectors in perfect synch! And also, with digital cheapness, you could even film two versions at the same time, one in 16:9 for TV and the other in digital Cinerama and so cinema can have a unique product. You could also keep your film projectors for some releases in 70mm like Inception, some 3-D, … the business case, maybe, in big cities, is to have something totally different to home cinema.
By the way, true Cinerama still cannot be replicated at home, although the smilebox process is not bad!
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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover
Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 05-07-2011 11:08 AM
quote: Ramon Lamarca Marques
I was talking about specialised cinemas in big markets where there is an audience for classic films shown on film.
Ramon, there is no market for specializied cinemas. You must have new product to successfully make it. Movie exhibition is about playing new movies which drives people to your theatre, from there you sell them food.
Take a look at the Bell Lightbox in Toronto. Toronto is a major film market and the Lightbox is a state-of-the-art cinema in heart of the entertainment district in downtown Toronto. It is perhaps the best theatre for presentation in the GTA, but they are not doing well playing old classic films...I saw 2001 there in 70mm and I was stunned. With that being said, the balcony was not open, cinema 4-5 were open that day and cimena 2 was playing Nightmare Before Christmas in Dolby 3D.
Today they are showing Incdencies. Tiff cannot get Hollywood stuff because they are right in the middle between the Paramount and AMC 24.
Another theatre look closely at is the Carlton. They started off playing independent films, they are now showing Fast Five and other mainstream stuff.
quote:
Well, you need to setup a strict set of rules and also a strict monitoring system, in this forum we have the experts but I would imagine using changeovers only, film-guard,
quote: Ramon Lamarca Marques
for some releases in 70mm like Inception
Ramon, you are not thinking logically here. Suppose I run a 70mm theatre and show Inception in 70mm. I have get a print which costs about $15,000. How long will it take till I break even?
I forgot to add in, the projectionist wage doing change-over, the shipping costs to the theatre.....
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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 05-07-2011 03:48 PM
quote: Tom Petrov
Ramon, you are not thinking logically here. Suppose I run a 70mm theatre and show Inception in 70mm. I have get a print which costs about $15,000. How long will it take till I break even?
Tom, there are many films like Inception being shown in 15/70 in many cities, which is much more expensive and there is still a business case and so I suppose there could be a business case for some select titles in 5/70 in some markets and big cinemas.
The print in 15/70 of Avatar in London lasted much, much, much longer than the traditional cinema prints, to the point that it was still being shown when the Blu-ray was released. Something very similar happened with the 15/70 of The Dark Knight. What I am trying to say is that there may be a market in big cities for top-nocht product.
quote: Tom Petrov
Ramon, there is no market for specializied cinemas. You must have new product to successfully make it. Movie exhibition is about playing new movies which drives people to your theatre, from there you sell them food.
Maybe not, as you say, but perhaps there is a market for unique cinemas (old ones, big style) to revive the old cinema experience. I am saying this because one of these few cinemas still existing, in Barcelona (where I am from), is showing films from the 70s, 80s and 90s once per month to sold out audiences. The feedback from audiences, especially young ones, is extremelly positive, both with regards to the quality of the films and also in seeing films on a huge cinema. Yes, it is once per month, but it is ideas like this what can bring audiences back. This would not work in a small cinema, of course. Films shown, for example, are Jaws, Alien, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, The Thing (John Carpenter).
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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 05-07-2011 04:43 PM
quote: Tom Petrov
You need a long successful run to make a 15/70 worthwhile
Certainly, I agree. Also, not all films need to be shown in 15/70, Borat would gain nothing in 15/70 ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Yet films that have a strong visual element gain by being shown in above average conditions. With Avatar, although the original resolution of the image is very low, I thought IMAX provided an amazing experience because of the way the film was shot. Moreover, whenever I see the film on an electronic device it has a videogame look that was somewhat softened on the 15/70 version and to me this helped me to immerse in the film.
Also, what I would like to say is that there may be different models for different films and cities. It has always been like this in cinema exhibition history. Big cities have had always the best because it has been financially sound to do so. Nowadays there is nothing like Todd-AO or Cinerama for big cities anymore. In the past we used to have special presentations for special films and this added to the excitement, now all presentations are the same.
In any case, as I said, current exhibition practices is a very difficult subject. My interest, being passionate about film history but also about film technology history, is to keep that experience alive, at least in some major markets.
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