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Author Topic: The secret to ensuring early failure of digital projectors Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-13-2010 10:46 AM                     Brad... Sure, please post the math when you get a chance. You might find it interesting to note however that two of the NEC systems I have installed have been for CPA's that also own theaters and they dilligently checked out all the available systems before going with the NEC. I also like to factor in power cost if at all possible since that seems to vary widely at different locations. POwer consumption si certainly lots less than an equivelent 35mm system! And on daily operating costs... power aside, alot of the daily cost depends on what kind of lamp deals you can get from the manufacturers and how much you sell them for. The biggest issue I have is just with the mid size Christie. It just can't really do Dolby 3-D on a 35 foot 1.4 gain screen... even with the 3000SD lamp it struggles when it's right out of the box on a screen that large. However, it does fine with Real-D on that size screen, but who wants a silver screen... right! I con't tell you how many silvers we've hung since April... Lots! The problem is that most of my customners that have single screens in the 150 to 200 seat count can't afford to loose saleable seats so Dolby 3-D is the only route for them to go. I've found that with the CDXL-30SD the projector can barely meet specs when the lamp is new and certainly will not over the 1000 hour warranty life of that lamp. You would have step up to the larger Christie projector to properly do the job and have the correct amount of light... I can do Dolby 3-D with the NC2000 and the standard 750 hour LTI 4kw lamp. We sell that lamp for less then the CDXL-30SD and it can keep things at spec over it's rated life span. Then as you know there are still two other Ushio 4kw lamps available, one with lower output and long 1500 hour life and one with even more light output than the LTI and 1000 hour life span, the same warranted hours as the CDXL-30. While I'm not going to post actual projector pricing here I can tell you that we can sell the NC-2000 projector itself for about 7 grand less than the mid size other make. Oh and the lens is about 1/3 less expensive to. Extended warranty costs less $$$$ until you reach the last few years of the 10 year possible extension time and then it gets comparable in cost. Then there are far superior base options available for the NEC's. The Eprad bases have up to two built in racks as well as built in power distribution saving a gob of money on electrical work on new construction and even many times during a retrofit. I can go on but there is little point in attempting to say who is best and who is not. All the gear out there once you really get to know it has it's good points and bad points... but one thing that appears to hold true is that you may very well have the same reliability out of any of the 3 DLP companies equipment. That is one the one area I don't think one company excells the other in. These are all really T.I. designs and built to T.I. specs... they are all going to be reliable. Mark  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-13-2010 10:54 AM                     The thing I personally fear most is if the DLP chips prove in a few years to have a continuous fail rate since all DLP chips are made by TI. Who guarantees that the chips will keep working flawlessly after thousands of hours in operation? Demetris  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-13-2010 10:59 AM                     Mark i question how 35mm consumes more electricity than digital digital always has a larger lamp and the rectifiers if modern are just as efficient and the server and ligt engine draw as much or more than a 1/4hp motor  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-13-2010 12:55 PM                     It typically doesn't take any larger lamp to do 2-D than the existing 35mm lamp. On power savings... the platter definately is out of the picture. My experience has shown that digital projector rectifiers are far more efficient than iron core rectifiers of a similar capacity... even brand new ones. Some rectifiers such as kniesley's are power hogs. quote: Demetris Thoupis The thing I personally fear most is if the DLP chips prove in a few years to have a continuous fail rate since all DLP chips are made by TI. If that turns out to be the case you may see other cmopanies offer light engine overhauling as a service... I think DLP has been with us long enough for T.I. to be able to predict some sort of failure rate on them. Accelerated testing can also be done on semiconductors... Mark  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 10-13-2010 04:50 PM                     Besides the "who's more economic to run" thread, I quote this more generally quote: Brad Miller Some people just can't do the basic math. That's SO true...  |  IP: Logged Jason Burroughs Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 654 From: Allen, TX Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-13-2010 06:24 PM                     Aside from lamp sizing, there's no practical way that a digital system consumes less electricity! Yes you delete the projector motor, and platter, but honestly neither of these have a significant draw. The platter system would be ~400Watts max, and similar for the projector motor. On the digital side you also have to include the server, at the tune of about 500Watts, and all the other ancillary equipment to deliver the content. The projector and platter only consume power "on demand" and the server and its equipment consumes power 24xForever Also the HVAC system shouldn't ever be turned off with digital, whereas with film it could be during the off hours. On the discussion of failure of HVAC vs failure of any projection component, HVAC wins hands down. Often the units installed are not continuous duty rated, and are installed in a uncontrolled environment. There's so much more to fail in a HVAC system, especially one not properly maintained. HVAC failure can be mitigated by using monitoring systems and using failure prediction. Redundancy of systems is also another mitigation plan. Any architect designing a space for digital equipment should fully understand ASHRAE TC9.9 and its specifications for Class 1 equipment.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 10-15-2010 11:24 AM                     Half of my booth is not currently air conditioned, and it really cooks back there. The half that is has 3 digi players in it, and since these klunkers suck more room air through them and blow it out on the roof than the replaced 35's by almost double, the booth AC system is having trouble keeping up. I predict the A/C system failure soon. We had a freon issue earlier this summer, and one of the Sony's told us that it was too hot to suit it, and the room temp never was over 80. I know they are going to have to AC the back booth. Digital will be back there with fans so loud that I will hate being around them next year. 550 hour lamps. And I'm STILL the only one on the site that will replace one. I can imagine the company enclosing the projectors in their own little climate controlled box. Its costing a fortune now just to stock lamps for these creatures!!  |  IP: Logged Aaron Mehocic Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 804 From: New Castle, PA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-16-2010 02:23 PM                     During our first expansion in 1996 the architectual design was not to air condition the booth. That was corrected about two years later after countless complaints by the then-manager. Although we never lost any shows due to excessive heat, it was very difficult on the Dolby CP-500 units. Many times during show checks I would notice the LCD screens barely able to register the proper information because they were being zapped so bad by the ambient temperature.  |  IP: Logged Tom Petrov Five Guys Lover Posts: 1121 From: El Paso, TX Registered: Jan 2003 posted 10-16-2010 11:52 PM                    Film is pretty much done in any new build. That is were it really matters, eventually the smaller theaters will go digital as well. Air conditioning or no air conditioning, it will happen. As for theaters in India, they will play film for a lot longer.  |  IP: Logged Joe Elliott Master Film Handler Posts: 497 From: Port Orange, Fl USA Registered: Oct 2006 posted 10-18-2010 12:47 AM                     Bruce, the enclosure thing may happen, but they wouldn't air condition it, just blow massive amounts of air into it. You would then have to enter the 'hurricane enclosure' to service the projector.  |  IP: Logged Jake Spell Master Film Handler Posts: 294 From: Johns Island SC Registered: May 2009 posted 10-18-2010 11:07 AM                     If the projector has a maximum ambient temp of say 90F and the booth is 105F then it doest really matter how much air you blow around it, You are still causing damage.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-18-2010 01:05 PM                        For what it's worth here, I have not noticed any significant change in our power bills since we digitized. I was expecting it to go up, since we went from a 2000W bulb to a 4000, but I guess maybe the platter not being in use has offset the difference.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 10-18-2010 02:17 PM                       Mike, I would attribute it to a more efficient lamp power supply. What were you using for a rectifier for your film lamphouse?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-18-2010 08:09 PM                     That rectifier in that CH-20 console is a major power hog along with being almost 30 plus years old. - (only thing bad with a Christie recifier since they really draw the amperage to operate ..) Also, the rectifier in the NEC is a very efficent switcher rectifier...prob why Mike's wattmeter outside of the building didn't show an increase in power used.  |  IP: Logged Jake Spell Master Film Handler Posts: 294 From: Johns Island SC Registered: May 2009 posted 10-18-2010 10:09 PM                     I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that the lights,HVAC, exhaust fans, sound racks use enough power that the extra 2000 watts isn't going to be noticed on the power bill  |  IP: Logged

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