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Author Topic: CineAsset DCP creator software question Jonathan Jensen Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Copenhagen V, Copenhagen/Denmark Registered: Sep 2010 posted 06-23-2011 10:29 AM                     quote: Brian Guckian Also, having read the literature, it is frequently explained that it should not be necessary to perform XYZ colour space conversion on MPEG2 material. It seems like the most robust workflow for DCP creation currently is to start with a 12-bit TIFF sequence, perform XYZ colour space conversion, then encode to JPEG2000 (audio and encryption aspects aside). That is correct, it is not necessary to perform XYZ colour space conversion on MPEG2 material if you want to make a MPEG2-DCP, but you'll need another macro (because MPEG2 is in rec709 color space). The J2K workflow you mention is indeed the most common. MPEG2 is an outdated (INTEROP) container which should be avoided. SMPTE is capable of handling more framerates than INTEROP. The problem is that far from all cinemas have updated their hardware/software yet, so one must be sure that the recieving cinema is SMPTE capable. Even if your AV source is in MPEG2, I'd still recommend doing a J2K conversion. The biggest problem is to create the TIFF's correctly so they complyu with the standard. I've tested multiple MPEG2 sources (4:3/16:9, PAL/NTSC, 24/25/30fps), using ffmpeg to convert from MPEG2 to TIFF's and do resizing/scaling. It can be done, but it's a bit of a pain until you know which settings to use for which material... but that's the fun part - figuring out how to make it work  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-25-2011 08:17 AM                     Yes, the feature/compressor settings for MPEG-2 are a multitude of those for J2k. Most DCP creation packages use only a few standard and safe DCI presets for J2k. Thus, you can be sure that the image stream can be decoded without errors. For MPEG-2 DCPs, ideally you would want to not recompress original MPEG-2 content to 'a different' MPEG-2 to preserve time and quality - however, then you end up with a DCP containining an MPEG-2 stream that might produce errors during decoding. Also, very often MPEG-2 files contain the audio as well as other PID tracks, so you would make sure it has been properly demuxed. There are also a few projector setups around lacking the proper presets for MPEG-2/REC709 presets. As such, coding J2k is certainly preferrable. People used to think that with MPEG-2 capability mentioned in the server specs, you could simply throw any MPEG-2 files to the server to be played. That's not true - you need DCP creation software, frame rate/sample rate conversion, possible deinterlacing, upscaling, etc.pp. After all, the extra effort to create xyz j2k, even if time consuming, doesn't add much to it in the end and should be preferred. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 06-25-2011 05:16 PM                     Gents, many thanks for that info - the MPEG2 to TIFF conversion is the bit I was missing, sorry if I sounded like a "doofus" as they say in the US (or whatever the Australian equivalent is )  |  IP: Logged Terrence Meiczinger Film Handler Posts: 45 From: Orono, Me, USA Registered: Dec 2008 posted 07-01-2011 02:14 AM                        quote: Brian Guckian It seems like the most robust workflow for DCP creation currently is to start with a 12-bit TIFF sequence, perform XYZ colour space conversion, then encode to JPEG2000 (audio and encryption aspects aside). In a typical digital cinema workflow, a DCP is created from the Digital Cinema Distribution Master (DCDM). The DCDM is 12 or 16-bit uncompressed TIFF image sequence in the XYZ colorspace and 24-bit PCM 48/96khz sound in a wav container. The DCP process would then encode to jpeg2000, MXF wrap, encrypt (if desired), create the reels and the associated XML files. In practice, there is overlap between where certain parts are done, for example most DCP software will do the XYZ color conversion.  |  IP: Logged Kore Pendragon Film Handler Posts: 27 From: Johannesburg Registered: Jun 2011 posted 07-07-2011 10:43 AM                     Its nice to see your version of cine asset works! After re-installing the software and re-downloading it i have finally given up after being told my computer doesnt have qtmlclielt.dll It does have it so i have ended up shipping my film clips else where to be rendered. Any ideas to why my computer will not run it?  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-08-2011 07:28 PM                     Well, we're nearly there... As stated before, the DSP-100 will only play in 24FPS whereas the 200's will play multiple speeds. We had a movie booked the other day that was booked as 'digital' but the distributor's version of that and ours obviously differed as it turned up as an MPEG2. I managed to create a DCP from that OK with the software. Looks great. I still have to work out the audio channels as it's only L/R but it's fun working it all out. I've also worked out how to create our own MPEGS in 24fps (they were indeed at 25fps) but haven't tested the results on screen yet. I'm sure that was indeed one of the problems. Annoying, but fun. Many thanks to all who've contributed in any way to this thread. Much appreciated.  |  IP: Logged Alan Gouger Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 501 From: Bradenton, FL, USA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-08-2011 08:27 PM                        Anyone try grabbing an HD trailer from apple or hdtrailer and run it through cineasset. Curious how the program works with video & if something was processed as mpeg2 could you run it in the mix with an MP2000 file or would it require a different color space. Thanks!  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-08-2011 08:29 PM                     Once it's converted to JPEG2K it's no longer an MPEG so If you create the added file as a JPEG2K it should just slot into the playlist.  |  IP: Logged Alan Gouger Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 501 From: Bradenton, FL, USA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-08-2011 08:59 PM                        Thanks John.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 07-09-2011 05:10 AM                     The recoding is only time-consuming, but not a problem. As far as I know, all high-quality HD trailers like the official Apple Quicktime trailers come in 24fps just as the source material. Check XYZ colour conversion during the conversion, and you have a perfectly DCI compliant file. If you need to convert 30/29,97Hz (NTSC) and your player does only support 24fps, like the DSS100, you'll be in trouble. 30/24 PullDown on progressive material is no fun. 25Hz (PAL) can just be slowed down on the audio side, the 25Hz image sequence will just play fine at 24fps. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Alan Gouger Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 501 From: Bradenton, FL, USA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-09-2011 02:51 PM                        Carsten I am wondering if a gamma conversion would take place leaving the apple trailer unusable if XYZ were chosen.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 07-09-2011 07:56 PM                     You can gamma correct in the same XYZ conversion process if needed. This will never be a perfect conversion anyway, since the high compression artifacts of the original compressed trailer and the 8Bit colordepth will become more visible on the big screen with a 12Bit format. Banding, etc. To my knowledge, DCI has a gamma of 2.6, vs. 2.2 for common controlled computer screens/OS. That difference is certainly visible, but not a killer for most content. If there is a Quicktime, Flash, WMV, etc. trailer available, it is very unlikely that there isn't a DCI/DCP version, so why bother with possible conversion imperfections at all? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged

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