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This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6 
 
Author Topic: Best Server?
Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 07-22-2012 12:13 AM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had a feeling there was a lot more than I'd already figured out.

Thanks, everyone. Fortunately, I've started this process with enough time to digest all of this.

Jack

BTW, Brad, there's a drive-in in our chat group that has one of your full-charge systems & is extremely pleased with what you set up for him. We hear about it a lot, especially his ability to work with it from far away with just his smart phone.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-22-2012 12:27 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As for Jupiter Client versus VNC...for myself, I prefer Jupiter client when remoting in. However, for end users that might want control from the manager's office...I prefer VNC...why?

With Jupiter, you must have the same version running as the servers. When one is remoting in and you need to look at the logs...Jupiter will save them on YOUR computer rather than a thumb drive...that I can neither insert, nor retrieve. There is also the disconcerting affect if a server starts to look like it is possessed by the tech remoting in.

For the manager, VNC means that it is version independent and there is no disadvantage to the VNC connection...odds are, they won't freak themselves out by connecting to a server in the booth.

Dolby's logs also seem to be the most comprehensive when trying to track down problems or, more importantly, when trying to head them off.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-22-2012 01:00 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Marco Giustini
Any chance to have that huge sequence of line commands? They could be useful on the field.
Oh boy. I don't have one in front of me to look through the menus, so this is from memory. You're also going to have to have all of the passwords.

First you have to pull power and physically swap the chip. You need a #2 phillips for the task, and literally this is the easiest part.

Next you need to configure the networking. I can't tell you what to enter because each location is different. (Just remember there can only be one gateway, so leave the gateway on eth1 blank.)

Reboot.

You need to setup VNC next. Doremi will send you the file to put in the root directory of a usb stick. Ingest the file.

Reboot.

Go into terminal and set the new password. I think the command is vncpasswd /doremi/etc/vnc/passwd but I could be missing some critical space or something in that command.

Time to rebuild the raid. Again go into terminal and I think it is sh /doremi/sbin/reinit_raid.sh In there you have to select how many drives you are using and go through all of the prompts. After awhile you want to verify both md0 and md1 say "active raid" before proceeding.

Go into the diagnostic tool in the GUI and verify all hard drives are green. You can start ingesting content once the "healthy" message appears.

Next you have to jump into the macro editor and re-setup all of your macros.

After that don't forget to update the certificates. Doremi can send this to you. I usually just FTP it into the rc.once directory and reboot. Keys won't load until you do this!

Time to go back into the device manager and re-add all of your devices such as the projector.

If you are running Dolby 3D you've got to go through a mess trying to get the Doremi to re-acknowledge the license. This is the one part of Doremi that I do not like, because curse words usually are uttered as it takes the license file and setup file, but after going through it all won't actually provide the DFC100 in the device manager when you've done all of it. Don't forget to re-shoot your colors and such.

Like I said you CAN re-install the OS in the field, but it isn't very straightforward and keep in mind I've trivialized the process since I've never sat down and written out a play-by-play on this and neither has Doremi to my knowledge. It will also eat up the better part of your day.

Dolby on the other hand, you just drop the disc in and let it go. 15 minutes later all you must do is set the ip and answer a few basic questions in a wizard and you're done.

Don't take this as anti-Doremi. They do make a very good server and it is definitely my second favorite when all factors are taken into account (including reliability), but again, this thread is about the BEST server, and Dolby just wins on way too many points...the hardware based raid being the most important one. (Well, to some people price is most important, but they win there too.)

Do not underestimate the importance of a hardware based raid!

Going back to the OS question, then there's GDC. They boast that they have a backup OS on each machine. Well, they do, but not really. You see the backup OS is on a PARTITION on the SAME...SINGLE...NON-RAIDED hard drive. Really, what's the point in that? Oh wait, there is none...because when the hard drive fails, there goes your "backup" partition. GDC also stores the media block information on this OS drive, so when it dies, you are at the mercy of buying another one for that specific machine from GDC and waiting for it to be made and shipped to you.

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Olivier Lemaire
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Paris, Ile de France, France
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 07-22-2012 04:51 AM      Profile for Olivier Lemaire   Author's Homepage   Email Olivier Lemaire   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doremi boot stick: pretty easy to use, no "long command line black magic ..." associated with. Pretty simple and stupid in fact. The most difficult part is probably to open the beast to plug the stick, so... when SSD fail, it's most of the time the operator that does the USB stick boot to save the next show and wait for a replacement action.

And yes SSD can and do fail: on a 2000 machine fleet, we can count about 3 to 7 SSD failures per year.

Anyway, seems to have some differences between States and Europe:
* In Europe, GDC is among the lower price, then comes Doremi, then Dolby. But of course, YMMV as we're talking about money and negotiation can move the lines.
* In Europe, GDC has an exchange/repair program - which is assumed by GDC integrators.

In Europe, the fact that Doremi did, since it's very begging, deliver upgradable machines, with a strong sense of service behind, could explains why Doremi represent more than 85% of market share in some big countries.

The fact they are the only one to have an IMB, sold since 2 years now, that comes with 4K and HFR by a mere software upgrade, explains probably why do peoples thinks Dorremi is a reliable manufacturer that knows is business and try to keep at the forefront of new needs.

From the integrator point of view, I must admin that their machines are also pretty easy to service - no hidden stuff.

I'v got some Dolbys (DSS-100 and 200), and we can spot around 3% of Dolby in the fleet I'm working on. Ok, they are good machines too - but the price was not the best one so far (yes, It's changing) - so that explains this small percentile. From the integrator point of view, I must admit that I personally feel at home with Doremi (pure design, no big bloatware, using embedded oriented software pieces) and somewhat a more a stranger on a Dolby (big SQL engine, Java anywhere, security by obscurity). Of course, it's a personal point of view.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 07-22-2012 05:13 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Brad, very kind of you.

I was aware of the procedure for replacing the SSD, reconfiguring the entire server, reconfiguring the RAID etc. etc.
What it would nice to know is how to re-install the OS on the field. I know that the procedure is to swap the SSD, but since you mentioned the possibility to reinstall the OS on field, it would be nice to have that procedure too in my 'digital toolbox' just in case. If you ever came across it again, please share it with us!

Olivier: can you confirm that I am mistaken and that the emergency stick is NOT server dependent? I appreciate that the correct certificates have to be reloaded afterwards, but that wouldn't be a problem, those ara 24/7 available on Doremi FTP.

I know it's easy to use, but let's face it, it won't take 5 minutes. Think of a pedestal install, with tight cables on the back. It would take 10 minutes just to access the back and unplug everything, not to mention power the server down, open it, and power it back again. Not a big deal, sure. But on a Dolby you just need to stick in a CD and wait. And you can walk out of the theatre with the server 100% up and running, no need to go back to swap the emergency stick with a proper SSD.

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Olivier Lemaire
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Paris, Ile de France, France
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 07-22-2012 05:19 AM      Profile for Olivier Lemaire   Author's Homepage   Email Olivier Lemaire   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Marco: I confirm, USB sticks are not server dependent. Certificates are dealt by the hardware, and at boot-time, place automagically by them on the SSD/USB stick partition without any intervention.

And yes, the most "complex" operation is using them is surely the hardware manipulation (open the pedestal, unplug the Doremi unit, open it, place the usb stick, replug the unit).

The time needed is not far away to the one needed to change a lamp bulb.

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 268
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 07-22-2012 05:35 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(about the Dolby interface)
quote: Steve Guttag
The only short coming there is the odd "lens turret" icon on the Control screen for "select." It makes no sense.
I always explain this to users as a poorly-drawn picture of a film reel. After that it makes complete sense to them.

I have most experience on the Dolby DSS200 and I would probably agree that it has the easiest interface, but there are still a couple of things I like in the Doremi. These two are partially related:

1) The ability to create macros that combine several cues. In the Dolby you have to program each and every cue separately on the timeline, and this can result in a rather cluttered view in the case of a complex show. Particularly irritating because the timeline hides a lot of information by default; see below.

2) Even though a lot of people like the Dolby timeline, the Doremi approach has its advantages. You can easily see the exact contents of the whole programme (exact timecodes included) at a single glance – no need to hover the mouse separately over each cue to see its exact content and exact position in time. It would be nice to have the Doremi-style view as an option in the Dolby.

But on the whole of course, reliability is more important than user interface. After all, people tend to get used to the UI peculiarities of any system that they use regularly, but they will never get used to hardware problems...

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-22-2012 09:23 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay...so lets call it a film reel (Dolby has to me)...how does that make sense either? Because you are choosing a "film reel?" It is an "open" icon...it opens a menu where you still have to select the appropriate tab (show or clip)...it could have had a name associated with it rather than being a "mystery" icon that does not call any attention to itself.

The Macro thing is something I would like as an option on the Dolby but it has yet to cause any heartache. Since the icons have three varieties the sound ones are very apparent and their position on the time line is pretty graphical. Again, in theatres with typical show types...I use an automation so the show is VERY clean with just a handful of cues total. A Start, Trailer, Feature, Credits, End (not unlike a film cue system). Others use just a "CUE" cue and advance an automation in its sequence. I have one customer that LOVES the ability to set volume cues, even mid trailer (I've only seen him do it on his own content...must not have mastered his policy snipe very well).

What ALL of the server companies really need is a "clone" feature where the installer, once the thing is configured completely can take an out-of-the-box server, load the clone in and get the parameters for the original server back sans content. GDC gets pretty close on this. This should be quick and easy...not a laborious process.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 07-22-2012 11:14 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doremi has a backup and restore utility which restores certificates as well if needed. I think it restores every settings, including cues and network.

Thanks Olivier for the hint. I'll make sure that one of those sticks is in my digital tool box then!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-22-2012 02:45 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
But Steve what GDC calls a "clone" really isn't. Its just saving settings. When the OS drive fails, that "clone" won't help you one bit.

GDC "clone" - not really, its just settings saved.

GDC "backup" - not really, its just a partition that will fail the instant the OS drive fails.

GDC "4k IMB" - not really, its downscaling to 2K, then upscaling the picture to 4K creating a worse overall image.

GDC "free daily reporter software" - not really, you have to buy their TMS software for each screen and this runs as an app on it.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-22-2012 02:55 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looks like with all of those attributes that resides with the GDC units, what are they trying to prove outside of cheating the customer out of a genuine product?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-22-2012 03:22 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
GDC isn't cheating anyone out of anything. The product does what it claims to do. The company is not doing anything unethical here. That does not change the fact that there exist competing products which are better designed.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-22-2012 07:00 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Unethical? That depends on your definition of the word. Technically Scott is right they aren't cheating anyone. It IS deceiving marketing though. If you don't know specifically the right questions to ask, you don't get what you think you are getting.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-22-2012 07:26 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds like some dealers (a general term) will sell product that they know isn't up to par to those who don't have a clue what the product is all about and tell the owner that it's the stuff that you need, knowing that no research is ever done by the owner.

Seen that a few times - why was the owner was sold this stuff? They were told that the product was good for their usage and it was at a good price.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-22-2012 07:39 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Typically that happens because one product will have a lower dealer price than another, so they sell whatever item will net them the most profit, without regard to the actual need of the theater.

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