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Author Topic: GDC server won't boot with USB drive inserted
Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 09-26-2012 11:32 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This thread points out some of the main things brought up in the "Best Server" thread....but can be summed up in one well-worn phrase:

You get what you pay for.

I wonder how many theatres with GDC's have had the "savings" wiped out in lost shows and/or refunds? [Wink]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-26-2012 11:38 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
But that's just it Tony. GDC servers are NOT the cheapest. Sure at one time they were, but for the last year Dolby and Doremi have been kicking GDC in the face with their price.

My personal opinion...it was due to the GDC VPF program. They knew they could put any price they wanted to on their servers and people HAD to buy them! And I'll back that up by saying let's see what happens in the next 6 months once they have moved all of the servers they can. I'll bet $20 that their price will magically drop down drastically again.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 09-26-2012 11:53 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for the clarification Brad. [thumbsup] I have noticed and been enjoying the price drops. Maybe someday soon I can afford a D-cinema setup for my palatial estate. [Smile] Then my journey to the Dark Side will be complete.

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Joe Elliott
Master Film Handler

Posts: 497
From: Port Orange, Fl USA
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted 09-27-2012 01:30 AM      Profile for Joe Elliott   Email Joe Elliott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just updated a few to 8.01, and they took just under 5 minutes to boot up. I have heard it will take over 20 minutes if you shut them down wrong (via the power button instead of the menu). You might want to check back on those servers Brad, sounds like there is something wrong.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-27-2012 01:45 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
We were talking about power failures Joe. Yes in theory they don't boot up that slow every time, but if the thing is acting screwy a software reboot won't always work and the power cycle becomes the only option. Regardless, a power failure on a GDC will of course guarantee you that 20 minute intermission. Why is this considered acceptable? It certainly isn't by my standards.

To put it in Joe-like terms, just imagine the fun at a 16 plex with a power failure. Seriously, put yourself in anyone's shoes:
Manager's position...sucks to be you.
Projectionist's position...sucks to be you.
Patron's position...sucks you patronized that theater.

The DCI people need to step in and make a MANDATORY requirement that all servers, projectors and anything else in the chain preventing the show from running must be able to boot from ANY condition in X number of minutes. (My vote is a maximum of 5, but 3 is preferred.)

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Joe Elliott
Master Film Handler

Posts: 497
From: Port Orange, Fl USA
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted 09-27-2012 02:14 AM      Profile for Joe Elliott   Email Joe Elliott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, I was going off of your own statements that sounded as if it was booting that way every time.

quote: Brad Miller
Dolby servers boot the fastest...still at their typical 7 minute reboot time. Doremi is somewhere around 10 minutes and GDC drags it up the end at 20 minutes.
However, I do see the statement above that and understand what you were explaining.

I do agree the 20min boot should not be acceptable.

A point should be made however, that power cycling without shutting down through the software is always a bad idea. I have known many theaters that have done that on each of the servers, GDC, Doremi, and Dolby. I found this article a while back when looking for info on why some UPS's still don't keep a server running right. The part 4 is a good snippit to give you customers who try to go cheap on a UPS. It explains it well.

http://www.halfgaar.net/why-power-failures-are-bad-for-your-data

quote:
Why power outages are bad for your data
1. Introduction

A lot of people assume that when power is cut from their computer, it should be able to handle that gracefully and no data should be lost. Unfortunately, it is not that simple. For a lot of people the risk is low, but when you're using your computer even slightly more seriously and your data is equally important, you might want to consider using a UPS.

This article explains what happens to the hardware and software when the power fails and the possible consequences it has. It should give you enough insight to decide whether you need a UPS or not.
2. What happens hardware-wise
2.1. Direct result

When the power fails, no individual component gets a clean shutdown command; power is just removed. When this happens, some parts of the machine may last longer than other parts. One of the first things that will happen, is that the memory DIMMs will no longer be refreshed properly (DRAM needs to be refreshed constantly otherwise it will lose its data) and very rapidly, the memory will contain only garbage. The hard drives and DMA controller however, will run a bit longer; so if data is being written to disk, the DMA controller will keep reading data from memory, but it has no idea that this data is corrupted. Some file systems are more sensitive to this kind of failure, because of the different kinds of journaling they do.

There are certain machines which are protected against this type of data corruption, by having the power supply send an interrupt to the operating system when power fails, but ordinary class PC hardware does not.

There is another side to this story, however. Researchers have shown that encryption keys can be retreived from memory minutes after the computer has been shut down. This would suggest that the memory doesn't corrupt so quickly at all when power is removed. However, because machines are still unstable when you decrease the refresh cycle of your RAM, it is apparent that some corruption still occurs.
2.2. Indirect result

Not directly related to a power loss as much as any kind of shutdown, is the fact that hard drives which have reached a certain age tend to die when the machine is powered up again. This doesn't necessarily happen immediately, but can take a few days. Additionally, you can imagine what will happen in this scenario when you have an array of identical disks of equal age; always put spare disks in your array, in power safe mode so they don't wear down.
3. What happens software-wise
3.1. Disk cache

Disk write cache is used to collect and delay transfers to the disks in favor of speed, because memory is faster than disks. When you shut down a machine when there is uncommitted data in the cache, you will lose this data, or corrupt it because only part of the cache is written. This can be illustrated very nicely by booting your Linux machine with the kernel parameter "init=/bin/bash". This will start a shell instead of the initialization procedure. You can then edit files, like /etc/shadow, should you want to reset your password. If you then press ctrl-alt-del without running the "sync" command to commit the disk cache first, your changes will not be committed to disk.

There are different kind of cache systems in existence. Two important ones for write cache are write-through and write-back. The former is safe, because it reports the data as written when the data is committed to disk. The latter is unsafe, because it reports the data as written when it has been written to cache, while it hasn't been written to disk yet. Even when you have a UPS it's unsafe, because there are several other reaons when power can suddenly disappear.

Write-back cache is used in a lot of disks these days. If possible, you may want to consider turning it off.
3.2. (Encrypted) file systems

Most people will think that because of journaling, file systems are protected against power failures. It's true that filesystems with journaling are more robust than those without, but it should be clear by now there are some things the file system cannot protect against.

Then of course, there are different ways that journaling can be done. Ext3 is more resillient against power failures then XFS and ReiserFS, because ext3 does physical block journaling. Ext4, however, by default does something called "delayed allocation," which means that meta-data is saved more often than the data itself. In the event of a power failure, this can data corruption, for obvious reasons. Linux Torvalds has an outspoken opinion against delayed allocation.

As the Gentoo Wiki states, you are even more susceptible to data loss in the event of a power failure when using an encrypted file system. The reason for this, is that hard disks are block devices. Normally, if a few bits are flipped as you write it to disk, you can take advantage of properties inherent in the data (depending on what it is) to recover it. At the very least, you only lose a bit of the block. Should the block be encrypted and trashed as it is written, the flipped bit will cause decryption of that block to fail, so it is all lost. Entropy of most computer data on disk is quite low, while encrypted data is essentially indistinguishable from true random; guessing gets a lot harder. Additionally, it is possible for multiple subsequent blocks to also be lost due to the initialization vectors used in IV chaining being unrecoverable. This depends on whether or not you're using them, how the cipher is configured, and other factors, but is a consideration.
3.3. (Linux software) RAID

Linux software RAID, and any RAID basically, needs to know if the disks of the array are still properly matched to eachother when the array is initialized. When power fails, or when you press reset, they will be in a "dirty" state, and the system may need to recreate the array. That is, if it can. I've never tried it, but I can imagine that a RAID0 can be completely destroyed by a power failure. But, don't take my word for that...

Modern Linux kernels (2.6.16 and newer) and raid tools (mdadm 2.4.1 and newer) luckily have a precaution against that, namely a write intent bitmap. When using Linux software RAID, I'd advise you to enable this. There are enough resources on the internet where you can find how, like the Gentoo Wiki. Unfortunately, write intent bitmaps are very slow. When you have the protection of a UPS, not using a write intent bitmap becomes more acceptable.
3.4. Databases

When you use a database system with (good) transaction support, data corruption will not happen when the power is removed. That is, when you're using disks that don't lie about their cache status (see above). You will, of course, lose all the uncommitted transactions, which can be annoying in itself.

When you're running a database without transaction support, like MySQL MyISAM, data corruption is of course likely.

Applications like LDAP directories, source control management repositories, etc, are also potentially susceptible to the same kind of failures, depending on if and how well they use transactions. Like I describe in my backup article, it's also important to make scheduled dumps of such applications, to make sure have a backup in a robust, self-contained archive.
4. Surge protection

UPSes also protect against surges on the mains power. However, only an online UPS (the expensive sort) does it properly, by always running the load from the battery. The offline variety merely uses MOVs, which is exactly the same thing as those ordinary power strips with surge protection. The effectiveness of those things can be questioned because of delay time, impedance (resistance) of the safety earth, longetivy of the MOVs because of frequent surges, etc. The internet is filled with information about the fallibility of MOV surge protection.

The surge protection on UPSes also often includes protection for ethernet and/or telephone networks. I really advice against using those. When there is a surge, the MOVs temporarily short the line containing the surge with the safety earth, but it will also connect the data networks to it. This safety earth, however, does not have infinitely low impedance, and therefore it's possible that some of the excess current will travel up the network, as opposed to down the safety earth. The exact details of this are more complex than this, but as always, the internet is your tool should you want to find out more.


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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

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From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 09-27-2012 02:55 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Doremi 2K4 units, from a total power off condition to a full on operating condition, takes less than three minutes.

SONY units are about 5 minutes.

Why does GDC's take so much longer - is it due to the OS on a HD than in flash memory?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-27-2012 03:24 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Agreed Joe, that's why we ONLY use line-interactive UPS units.

Regarding the boot times, the magical thing here is the Dolby is 7 minutes no matter what condition was thrown at it. (Yes I've tried to make them angry to test that.)

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-27-2012 04:32 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It should be noted that the GDCs behave differently on IMBs versus traditional mediablocks. All of my GDCs that are DCI compliant take about 5 minutes or less to boot to show ready...regardless of how they were turned off. I hear that IMB versions can, if the wrong thing turns off first, can get you the 20-minute boot up.

Note, I've just put in my first Dolby DSS220/Cat745 IMB...it does not care what was turned off first and will reconnect to the IMB about as fast as a DSS200 reconnects once a projector turns on. One pleasant surprise was at show start...no "checking licenses" ...it just goes!

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 09-27-2012 06:20 AM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Speaking of the 8.01 update, make sure you have build 66 and not build 60. There have been issues with build 60 shutting down shows. They have an incremental update to fix the problems. Of course they don't tell you that until you call them and ask why all of a sudden the shows are stopping after updating to 8.01. What a joke.

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Steven J Hart
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: WALES, ND, USA
Registered: Mar 2004


 - posted 09-27-2012 07:54 AM      Profile for Steven J Hart   Author's Homepage   Email Steven J Hart   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
Could it be you are upgraded to the DCI compliant software and that was all it was, and the server worked fine the next show?
We are still running the older OS. As soon as I pulled out the USB drive, the server booted up in a minute or two.
I don't have a VPF program so I'm not going to upgrade the GDC OS until some other reason requires it. I hadn't restarted the server in many months prior to this extended power outages.

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Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-27-2012 08:22 AM      Profile for Dennis Benjamin   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis Benjamin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony said: "Seems that GDC has missed the mark in many ways..and I heard a rumor that it is (was?) possible to revive an expired key by changing the BIOS date and time...oops.

I get the impression that the designers at GDC have never been in, much less operated, a cinema."
___________________________________________________________

Uh, this would be the reason that the BIOS is locked with a password.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-27-2012 03:46 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, interesting on the non-IMB vs. IMB. I'll have to test that one night.

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