Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: So how DOES a 2.35:1 DCP get shown at 1.85:1, exactly?

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Topic: So how DOES a 2.35:1 DCP get shown at 1.85:1, exactly?

Michael Kurtzke
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Ashburn, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2013

posted 05-18-2013 09:24 PM

Howdy Folks! I have the same projectors the Alamo Drafthouse has in Colorado, because I'm from their new location in Loudoun County. It's a known bug with the Sony SRX-515's and the SRX-320's that if you have scope content and you play it using the "Flat" setting, it will chop off the sides to fit the 1.85:1 ratio. Likewise, if you happen to accidentally put a flat trailer that is not "formatted" for scope [as I did earlier today] in a scope movie, it will chop off the top and bottom of the image.

Tonight Sony is putting out a software/firmware update and *hopefully* this will be all fixed!

What most likely happened is that the kid upstairs didn't adjust the masking for the feature, thought the picture was wrong because it had bars on the top and the bottom, and put it in Flat.

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Connor Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 190
From: Sterling, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2011

posted 05-18-2013 10:46 PM

The Alamo Drafthouse One Loudoun was buggy when I went there. I saw "Iron Man 3" with the projector set to scope, as it should be, but the masking was set for flat. Good thing it was a common width screen, no parts of the image where chopped off. That unused black area was annoying, though.

I wrote a complaint to them when I got home and I was offered a free ticket and a job. [Wink]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-18-2013 10:49 PM

quote:
Howdy Folks! I have the same projectors the Alamo Drafthouse has in Colorado, because I'm from their new location in Loudoun County. It's a known bug with the Sony SRX-515's and the SRX-320's that if you have scope content and you play it using the "Flat" setting, it will chop off the sides to fit the 1.85:1 ratio. Likewise, if you happen to accidentally put a flat trailer that is not "formatted" for scope [as I did earlier today] in a scope movie, it will chop off the top and bottom of the image.

Tonight Sony is putting out a software/firmware update and *hopefully* this will be all fixed!

Michael, that is in no way a "Sony bug". That is DCI spec. I suggest you read up on it because there is no way Sony will ever fix a "bug" that doesn't exist.

This is no different than getting angry at Kinoton because when you play a scope 35mm film through a flat lens it cuts off the top and bottom of the picture and everyone is super skinny. [Roll Eyes]

Look here.

See the red lines? That's scope on the chip, all the way to the sides and NOT to the top and bottom.

See the green lines on the side? That's flat on the chip, using the entire height of the chip but not the full width.

Before someone comes on babbling about 2K vs. 4K, that doesn't matter here. We're talking about aspect ratios.

If you play a flat movie in scope, you won't see anything outside the red lines in that picture (you lose the top and bottom). If you play a scope movie in flat, you won't see anything outside the green lines in that picture (you lose the sides). To make matters worse, if your installation technicians didn't bother to fix the masking to achieve precise aspect ratios (which most installers are too lazy to do), then everything can be exaggerated even more (losing a LOT off of the sides, for example).

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Michael Kurtzke
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Ashburn, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2013

posted 05-19-2013 02:44 AM

Connor, the masking was buggy because whoever set up the automation for the masking didn't set it up right. No matter what button you push, it reverses the masking. It should work that if I have a cue in there to have the masking for scope, and it is at scope, it should stay there. It doesn't. It seems like they basically installed garage door openers :/ It also doesn't help that when some manager runs upstairs to turn off the bulb because no seats were sold, he doesn't bother to put the masking back to flat [for the pre-shows] which screws up the entire day.

Brad, I thought it was a "Sony Bug" because I never experienced that problem on my Barco 20C's that I used for two years. If I had it set to Scope, and I put a flat trailer on it, it would add in pillarboxes for the flat content. And yes, I knew that if you had scope content and put it at the Flat preset it would crop the picture regardless of your projector.

Also, can we just end this already? An incompetent booth operator, [According to Brad, someone like me] screwed up. That's it. I didn't realize that because I made a mistake I'd be chewed out.

Sorry!

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-19-2013 09:36 AM

Michael, I think you are missing the point of Brad's comment.

That is, how DCPs are projected. The Barco is NOT inserting "pillar boxes" It, like the Sony is projecting black because there simply isn't any information there.

When a authoring house creates Flat versions or Scope versions of trailers...the reason they do that is to preserve the aspect ratio of feature they are creating the preview for. Thus, if the upcoming feature happens to be Flat and you are showing that on a Scope movie, then you will see the pillar box because there is no information there. The projector is "dumb" with respect to the actual content, it shows everything that is there until one prevents it (creates a screen file to turn off pixels like an aperture plate). Note, the same is true in the reverse...a Flat feature showing the preview of an upcoming Scope movie...you will get a letter box.

An operator/manager can screw things up by not using the proper format set up in the projector. So if one were to use a Scope preset to show a Flat movie, it would not only enlarge the image (zoom) and crop...since the the Flat image stops at 1998 pixels(using 2K as an example) it will not fill the scope width. Again, the reverse is true if a Flat projector format is used for a Scope movie.

With respect to the masking system installed. There are two ways that one can get a toggle type situation...it can be that the machine itself does indeed toggle between the two positions or the "automation" system functions that way. It could be out of the installer's control to properly correct for either...particularly if there is a means for manual intervention where the automation can get out of sync. I would absolutely agree that using such a strategy (regardless where the limitation is being introduced) is a poor design.

Note, historically, this is how curtains have been wired. This system worked because it allowed for a conventional 3-way/4-way switch system so that a curtain switch could be placed at each projector (think 2-machine changeover as well as a local switch on the machine itself). Since it was full manual, the operator merely flipped the switch in front of him to send the curtain the "other" way. This system never worked well in the automated theatre and I can't think of the last such system I've seen that was INSTALLED in a AUTOMATED theatre.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 05-19-2013 07:35 PM

quote:
I wrote a complaint to them when I got home and I was offered a free ticket and a job. [Wink]

Did they make you choose between a free ticket or a job or did they really offer both? [Razz]

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 05-20-2013 10:23 AM

quote: Michael Kurtzke
Howdy Folks! I have the same projectors the Alamo Drafthouse has in Colorado, because I'm from their new location in Loudoun County.

Michael, may I ask what job function you have there?

- Carsten

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Michael Kurtzke
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Ashburn, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2013

posted 05-20-2013 06:32 PM

Steve and Brad - Thanks for the advice. As a new guy coming into the world of projection, you and everyone else here help a ton! I'll make sure to correct all of my mistakes. [Smile]

Carsten - I'm a projectionist at the Ashburn Alamo Drafthouse. I know what projectors they have because they bought the projectors for my location, Colorado, and Yonkers right before the VPF's expired.

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William Kucharski
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 244
From: Louisville, Colorado, United States of America
Registered: Oct 2012

posted 06-18-2013 07:27 PM

Michael, thank you for an explanation of what likely happened; that's really what I was trying to understand in the first place. [beer]

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System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004

posted 04-23-2016 12:13 AM

It has been 1039 days since the last post.

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Bradley J Sime
Film Handler

Posts: 68
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Registered: Apr 2016

posted 04-23-2016 12:13 AM

I have that Casablanca DCP now. Flat?

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