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Topic: Cinemark Installing Auro

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-14-2013 11:22 AM

quote:
What I wouldn't give for an Arclight here…

So over-rated. And over-priced.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 08-14-2013 12:56 PM

It's gotta be better than a standard issue AMC or Regal though.

AJG

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-14-2013 02:14 PM

Oh sure. That much is true.

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Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008

posted 08-14-2013 10:18 PM

I agree with you in the overpricing of Arclights Manny, but I personally can't wait for the Arclight Montgomery Mall location here in the DC area - which I think has been delayed because of the recent tragic parking deck collapse and death. I am really hoping they will install their specialty large 'wide' screen (with Dolby Atmos) as they have done at their La Jolla location.

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System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004

posted 09-19-2015 03:25 AM

It has been 765 days since the last post.

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Aron Toplitsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 113
From: Gardena, CA, USA
Registered: May 2012

posted 09-19-2015 03:25 AM

There is probably a long answer to this question, but what is the difference between Auro 11.1 and Dolby Atmos? Are there two separate mixes for both?

As I look at the Cinemark website for theaters here in Los Angeles, I noticed most of the XD theaters Showing Maze Runner: The Scorch Trials and Everest say "Auro by Barco" for their large format screens. There is one theater that indicates "Auro Extreme" on two of their screens. Is there a difference between those two?

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 09-19-2015 07:36 AM

Auro is a channel based system. You have 11 channels and a sub. It is mixed and reproduced as a 5.1 or 7.1, just with more channels.

Atmos is NOT channel based. The sound processor renders the sound in real time in the room based on the information it has: number of speakers, position of speakers. There is a map of the auditorium in the sound processor and the sound processor knows exactly where each speaker is (XYZ).

The sound mixer places the sound in a specific place in the mixing room. The CP850 then renders the sound to make sure the same sound ends up exactly where it supposed to be in every different auditorium - does not matter how many speakers you have and where they are.

So the same sound of the same soundtrack won't be played back through the very same speakers in different rooms. The CP850 will 'map' the sound to the speakers to you here coming from where it was intended to.

Atmos can also play 5.1 and 7.1, some pre-defined surround speakers are grouped - and EQ'd - together so standard formats can be also played as intended with no compromises.

One big advantage of Atmos Vs. any other system - besides this very clever way of rendering sound - is the dynamic behind it. Since EACH speaker should be capable of reaching 102dB SPL at listening position (this is then compromised a little to help with budget!) the final power reserve is just huge. On a channel based system the WHOLE ARRAY should be capable of reaching 102dB at listening position.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-19-2015 03:29 PM

Actually Dolby Atmos can and does support channel-based content. Atmos regards channel-based audio elements in the mix as "beds." Channel based beds can be layered on six different surrounds arrays (four on the side/back walls and two on the ceiling) as well as channels behind the screen. Object-based sounds (up to 128 simultaneously) can be added to those beds. The objects can be rendered to any position in the room, but render only as well as the theater has gone into tricking out its sound system with additional amplifiers. Optimally every surround speaker would have its own amplifier or at least its own channel of amplification. Not all Atmos-equipped theaters are doing this.

Auro 11.1 is indeed only channel-based. It's basically a 5.1 audio format with two levels of height information added to it. One BIG disadvantage to the theatrical version of Auro is it lacks discrete back wall surround channels. Basically a 7.1 wired system is going to deliver better conventional surround sound than Auro can manage. Things like fly-by surround panning effects don't work so well in a 5.1 environment. They work a lot better in 7.1. By the way, Dolby Atmos has no problem getting surround sounds panned to the back wall. Even a minimal Atmos configuration (which would come out to a 9.1 system) can do basic surround panning just fine.

I don't know what "Auro Extreme" is. There's nothing mentioned about that at the Auro website and web searches don't turn up anything for me. Maybe the theater made up the term to go with that "XD" thing.

Given the relationship between Auro, Barco and Datasat (if I remember right Datasat makes the Auro sound processors), I kind of expect Auro to transition over to supporting DTS' Open MDA format, a.k.a. DTS-X. Since various third parties might possibly apply their own branding to the technology, Auro would be likely to do that. However, I see more brand equity in something like DTS-X than I do Auro.

quote: Marco Giustini
One big advantage of Atmos Vs. any other system - besides this very clever way of rendering sound - is the dynamic behind it. Since EACH speaker should be capable of reaching 102dB SPL at listening position (this is then compromised a little to help with budget!) the final power reserve is just huge. On a channel based system the WHOLE ARRAY should be capable of reaching 102dB at listening position.

Not all theaters are following this suggestion very well. The tall ceilings in stadium seated auditoriums really demand some powerful speaker systems up there. But that's not what I'm seeing installed in most cases.

You'll hear the ceiling surround speakers better the farther back (and higher) you sit away from the screen. Viewers sitting close and near ground level will not hear ceiling surround activity nearly as well.

Basically any "immersive" surround system still requires you to find a sweet spot in the room.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 09-19-2015 04:05 PM

Hi Bobby,

That's what I meant when I said

quote: Marco Giustini
Atmos can also play 5.1 and 7.1, some pre-defined surround speakers are grouped - and EQ'd - together so standard formats can be also played as intended with no compromises.

As usual every cinema installs what they want but even though you want to save money, you'll still end up with one amp for each surround speaker (with some exceptions if you follow the latest Atmos specs).

What I am saying is that if an Atmos system is installed you won't find a 5.1 system driven by three amplifiers! Because it is Atmos, you WILL have more power than the average.

Let's also say that if the customer is investing in Atmos, usually they are willing to invest some money into it.

Keyword: "usually" [Smile]

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Aron Toplitsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 113
From: Gardena, CA, USA
Registered: May 2012

posted 09-26-2015 12:28 AM

Thanks for the reply guys.

So Atmos can sound different or should I say better, depending on how it's set up for each theater? I have watched Atmos films in various theaters around the LA area and I can say some sound better than others.

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 387
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 09-26-2015 11:23 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
I don't know what "Auro Extreme" is. There's nothing mentioned about that at the Auro website and web searches don't turn up anything for me. Maybe the theater made up the term to go with that "XD" thing.

Given the relationship between Auro, Barco and Datasat (if I remember right Datasat makes the Auro sound processors), I kind of expect Auro to transition over to supporting DTS' Open MDA format, a.k.a. DTS-X. Since various third parties might possibly apply their own branding to the technology, Auro would be likely to do that. However, I see more brand equity in something like DTS-X than I do Auro.

Barco and Auro are now rolling out AuroMax, so maybe that's what Auro Extreme is referring to? AuroMax uses basically the Auro-3D speaker layout with a base surround layer, a height layer at 30 - 40 degrees and an overhead layer, but instead of playing back an 11.1 channel mix in the 3 layers it renders an MDA bitstream to that layout. Essentially a hedge against when SMPTE standardizes an object-based bitstream. Barco acquired Iosono some time back and are using a lot of the technology from Iosono to develop their rendering engine.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 09-26-2015 03:19 PM

So it's going to mimic Atmos!

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted 09-26-2015 09:10 PM

I've been fortunate enough to observe a couple of ATMOS mixing sessions
and have even had a chance to 'play around' with the equipment a bit.
WoW! You can do some wild things with the audio, bouncing sounds
all around the room-space. I don't clam to a sound mixer,
(it's way above my pay grade, and a different union), but it was fun to
get to muck around with some super sophisticated/expensive equipment a bit.
- - and it's interesting watching the experts build the track from the basic 'bed'
up to creating and enhancing the 'objects' which in many cases also themselves
consist of multiple audio 'layers'.

Sometimes I don't know how they keep track of where everything is!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-26-2015 10:12 PM

It would be fun to play around with an editing setup able to create Atmos tracks. Mainstream software is pretty capable with creating 5.1 or 7.1 audio tracks. With DTS' Open MDA being open I wonder how long it will take before companies like ProTools, Apple, Adobe, etc. incorporate that kind of sound design capability into their software.

quote: Aron Toplitsky
So Atmos can sound different or should I say better, depending on how it's set up for each theater? I have watched Atmos films in various theaters around the LA area and I can say some sound better than others.

There aren't any real hard rules on what theaters have to do when installing Dolby Atmos. Dolby certainly has their recommendations on what theaters should do, but theater chains will look for ways to save money while still getting the icon

quote:
So it's going to mimic Atmos!

Maybe yes, maybe no. It think it depends on how existing Auro 11.1 systems are wired and how many channels of amplification their surround fields have. There's lots of those Cinemark/Century "XD" theaters, most of which have Auro 11.1 sound systems. I wonder what they'll have to upgrade if they convert those Auro systems into AuroMax.

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Aron Toplitsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 113
From: Gardena, CA, USA
Registered: May 2012

posted 09-26-2015 11:56 PM

So which of the two formats have better bass management and provide a better LFE experience?

Also, does the Auro 11.1 system place subs in the rear like an Atmos set up?

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