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Topic: The importance of encrypting EVERYTHING

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 11-07-2013 01:56 PM

quote:
many of these repertory re-issues are NOT the original DCP that was ran during the theatrical engagement. They are re-masters at LOWER BITRATES!

Say WHAT!? [Eek!]

Any examples?

Do people still do inspection reports for DCP screenings, like we (hopefully/presumably) all did for film?

In addition to aspect ratio, duration and credit offsets, I decided (earlier this year) to also start gathering data on things like resolution and file size.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 11-07-2013 02:17 PM

When we receive repertoire DCPs, that is, stuff from the previous 1-2 years, we can see from the filedates and stickers on the harddisc when they had been created/duplicated.

They may be stupid, but not stupid enough to waste money. If they have an encrypted distribution master, they won't spend the additional effort to create another encrypted distribution master from another new lower bitrate encoding. Especially not since the bookings are a lot lower for these repertoire bookings than for the initial run.

Different story when they have to create new distribution masters from 'real' repertoire titles that have never been issued as a DCP.

I have not the slightest doubt that some of these 'classic' DCPs are in fact not even created from a proper 1080p or 2k 'master', but in fact from a 'real' physical consumer BluRay. Simply because it is easier to source and convert than a 'real' master in some cases.

- Carsten

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-07-2013 03:28 PM

I can understand the importance of encrypting a classic repertory movie DCP if it's coming from a brand new high res scan and uncompressed digital intermediate source. It would seem especially valid if the DCP is running at a really high bit rate.

OTOH, if the repertory DCP is sourced from a Blu-ray encode, then there's little sense with encrypting it at all. Chances are the same movie is available on torrent sites, sans the menus and other stuff one deals with on the retail disc. They might as well just give the theater a .MP4 file to play. It's a waste of time converting an already lossy Blu-ray encode to DCP (and an additional level of lossy compression via JPEG 2000).

It's pretty easy to see how tempting it would be for distributors to use a Blu-ray encode as a source for a repertory DCP. The file size differences are tremendous.

A 2 hour movie on Blu-ray (just the movie and English 5.1 audio track) will use between 20GB and 35GB of disc space. Very few movies on Blu-ray use anymore than 40GB of space just for the movie itself. Out of the few movies that do, such as Saving Private Ryan or Braveheart, those movies are well beyond 2 hours in length and have extras put on a 2nd disc. AFAIK, there aren't any "deep color" movies on Blu-ray even though the format can support such a thing over newer versions of HDMI.

An uncompressed 2048 x 852 video master will consume about 1.4Gb per second in 8-bit color and nearly 2Gb per second in 12-bit color. It doesn't take more than a couple minutes of that stuff to eat more disc space than a Blu-ray encode. One 2 hour movie in uncompressed 2K can fill most of a 2 Terabyte hard disc.

A 30GB MPEG-4 AVC video file versus a 1.6TB 2K master. If you have to make a DCP and have either source, but not a whole lot of time to screw with it, which source are you going to choose? I think the AVC file is going to be the preferred choice even though it shouldn't be.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 11-07-2013 04:17 PM

quote: Carsten Kurz
They may be stupid, but not stupid enough to waste money. If they have an encrypted distribution master, they won't spend the additional effort to create another encrypted distribution master from another new lower bitrate encoding. Especially not since the bookings are a lot lower for these repertoire bookings than for the initial run.

Carsten I can assure you we have seen it on multiple titles. With our system being completely automated, we have a database of every clip ever played and it becomes really obvious when a movie has been re-authored that a theater has played before. Perhaps the distributors here in the US are just stupid? I could buy that answer. [Razz]

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 11-07-2013 05:48 PM

I've said it on here before and I'll say it again:

I have NEVER encountered a business more hell-bent on self-destruction than this industry.

If the rest of this country's businesses ran the way the film studios treat their own exhibitors, the US economy would have collapsed years ago.

How much longer can the studio's BS continue before the ship hits the iceberg and sinks?

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-07-2013 06:23 PM

Oh I don't know...I first went to work in the business in 1976 and I can still remember my old boss back then griping endlessly about the "assholes" at the studios. Just different issues.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 11-07-2013 07:01 PM

Part of the problem may be lackey managers that are given a job to prepare a DCP and use some home video master instead. Probably all kids fresh out of film school who grew up on DVDs and think digital cameras are the PEAK of moviemaking...

All the cool and knowledgeable old guys and gals seemingly left...well a helluva lot of them. Hell, I'm not even technically in the biz anymore...I just sell tickets.

AJG

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Mike Heenan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1896
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-07-2013 07:14 PM

What are some examples of repertory DCP's that are being sent out with lower quality versions?

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 11-07-2013 07:33 PM

quote: Scott Norwood
Really? WTF? Why would the distributors go to the trouble and expense of re-creating something that had already been created, but then do it worse the second time? Especially when that is the version that may be held to be the "definitive" version of the "content" (not "film") for many years into the future?

That's just their way of simulating the "film experience" in the modern age. You know, movies are supposed to degrade in quality with age [Wink]

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 11-07-2013 08:41 PM

quote: Mike Heenan
What are some examples of repertory DCP's that are being sent out with lower quality versions?

American Beauty looked like shit. The Matrix was kind of meh, but not horrible.

Ghostbusters had nothing on the 35mm print I saw recently.

AJG

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-07-2013 08:56 PM

None of those titles were originally released as DCPs, though.

I showed a 70mm print of Ghostbusters in 2004-ish and it was grain-city. I don't remember what the 35mm prints looked like, but I'm guessing that they were not all that pretty, either.

(Not that I am defending crappy DCPs. Or prints, for that matter.)

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-07-2013 09:07 PM

Scott, I showed Ghostbusters in 70mm when it first came out, and it was grain city then.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 11-07-2013 09:34 PM

I honestly don't remember which ones they were. I do know one of them was a Wimpy Kid movie (not sure which of the 3 it was though). The one played a couple of months ago was HALF the size of the DCP that originally was released in theaters.

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