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Author Topic: More USELESS nonsense in the world of digital cinema Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 11-17-2013 02:41 PM                     quote: Sean Weitzel or combination locks on the cans "You'll have the lock code 2 hours before showtime We once had someone working there in the booth that by chance entered their birthdate on the lock. Needless to say, we were able to QC that print much earlier than anyone else. AJG  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 11-17-2013 03:09 PM                        OK I can't get more than a few posts into this thread before I start getting angry. If they give you an e-mail, E-MAIL THEM and say that NO you didn't QC the movie because that option doesn't exist. And NO you didn't follow their QC instructions because that's like watching one movie to QC another. Let's say you're looking at some hot porn and you get some nasty corruption over the 'good parts' of the image. HOW CAN THAT BE??? You looked at the thumbnail to QC the image before you clicked it THAT'S COMPLETELY VALID QC! Same thing is going on here. Oh! And if those fuckers call asking if you've QC'd, tell em the same thing. "No we haven't as that option isn't available and your instructions do not allow us to QC the actual movie. That's like asking us to watch a trailer to make sure a print is built up correctly and doesn't have any defective reels. Good day."  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-17-2013 07:58 PM                        Better yet. Run the QC as instructed, then call in a panic telling them it's defective and you didn't get the full movie and they need to send new one ASAP.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-17-2013 08:34 PM                        quote: Justin Hamaker I can assure you many of these issues are brought to the attention of NATO, and they are brought to the attention of the studios. I know this because I have been in the room when various issues are being discussed within NATO and I have seen, or been made aware of, communications between NATO and studio executives. I'm sure you are correct -- however, a couple of people here and there complaining aren't going to do anything. What needs to happen is a STORM of emails, phone calls, or even letters, along with the solutions Brad and Joe have suggested. If stuff actually starts to happen, then they might pay attention. The way it is now, they say what they want, we all do it, and if there are a couple of complaints they chalk it up to nit-pickers. The other problem is not so much "greed," but "need." No chain, no matter how big, can afford to bypass an opening night of a huge movie like a Hunger Games title. You may not believe it but they have bills to pay, too. Taking a stance on principle is great, but if it costs your company a collective $10 million or more, you're more likely to just play by the rules. We aren't playing the Hunger Games movie on the break so I'm not having to deal with this nonsense, fortunately.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 11-17-2013 09:20 PM                        Mike I'm not just talking about people complaining. I'm talking about people who are on various committees which include theatre people, NATO people, and studio people. These committees include technology which is working to refine digital cinema standards and bring studios and theatres onto the same page on various issues - things like implementing a standard CPL naming convention which would be used by all the studios. Working on improved KDM delivery. Working on having the studios make better use of metadata in CPLs. There is another committee for ratings compliance which works with the MPAA to ensure compliance by the studios to ratings standards, as well as trying to implement policies which are more practical for the theatre environment - including trying to ensue the ratings system keeps up with our society's changing values. NATO is also active in Washington DC trying to help theatres from unreasonable regulations and legislation. For example, the Justice Department is in the process of reviewing ADA requirements when it comes to the implementation of closed captioning and descriptive audio in theatres. I know for a fact that my theatre's logs on ALD, CC, and descriptive audio use are making there way to people who are involved with these decisions to help them implement practical rules related to minimum system requirements and quantity of units available. While NATO doesn't really have any official power, they are working to bring studios and theatres together on a number of different issues. But as I said, they stop short of advising theatres to take a specific stance on issues like passing on certain pictures due to things like day and date VOD, unreasonable film terms, and so forth. But the do disseminate information to theatres which can help make decisions about various issues. Having sat in on a number of NATO meetings, one thing I can say is that there are very often competing interests on various issues, some of them coming from a corporate level rather than the ground level.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-17-2013 10:37 PM                        Wow, with all those committees and the wonderful interaction between NATO and the studios, how is it a thing as simple as fixing a problem as obvious as keys being set to an unreasonably short lead-time before a feature opens, not to mention the totally useless "quality check" of something other than the full feature, can't be addressed and easily fixed in short order? Problem here is, failure to communicate. Seems obvious that those who set up this whole separate key for a test that is nearly useless with an entire feed-back network in place to check if the useless QC was carried out, was done without consultation with the exhibitor to understand what he needs to insure a perfect run (something I assume is as beneficial to the studio as it is to the exhibitor). All this feasco seems to indicate is that for all the hob-nobbing between NATO committees and studio people, theatre operators didn't have any input about this since anyone who works in the real-life operation of a theatre would immediately see the flaws in their policy. This thread shows that it doesn't take much to understand how conterproductive their QC system really is. All they needed to do was ask. Seems like NATO hasn't been able to convince the studios that allowing longer lead-times for proper QC runs are no more a security risk than allowing the picture to play at all.  |  IP: Logged Randy Pryde Film Handler Posts: 32 From: Casper, WY, USA Registered: Feb 2013 posted 11-17-2013 10:42 PM                        Adding to Justin's excellent summary, NATO also has a committee representing independent theatre owners. The Cinema Buying Group, under NATO's auspices, was able negotiate contracts with the studios and Cinedigm which enabled a lot of independents to receive VPFs. Wayne Anderson, and later Bill Campbell, as unpaid heads of the CBG, worked thousands of hours to make this happen. John Fithian, the president of NATO, is present at every CBG meeting. NATO also was instrumental in overturning the ban on SBA loans to exhibitors. This has enabled a lot of people to buy their first theatre or grow their circuit. NATO represents over 600 U.S. exhibition companies, but a call or email from any member is always quickly acknowledged.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 11-17-2013 11:05 PM                        Frank, I get the impression you have a personal beef with NATO and think it's NATO's responsibility to MAKE the studios do what theatre owners want. The simple fact is the issue over short window keys, and other related nonsense, has been brought to the attention of the studios many different times through many different avenues. Deluxe probably fields calls with every Sony release asking why the keys aren't good until 6:00pm Thursday. Film bookers are hearing from theatres and passing it on to their studio contacts. And studio people are also hearing the complaints that come through NATO. More to the point, Lionsgate is well aware that theatres want to have the keys in a reasonable amount of time to ensure QC showings. Most LG keys are good at midnight Thursday morning (Wednesday night). This was the case for Ender's Game, Now You See Me, You're Next, and every other LG film we've played. The exception has been the two Hunger Games films and the Twilight Breaking Dawn Part 2 (the earlier Twilight films were release through Summit). For whatever reason, LG feels they can/need to exert tighter control over these major releases, and they get away with it because no theatre which can play these films is going to pass on them to make a point. The blame for this lunacy should fall at the feet of Lionsgate, and only Lionsgate. For what it's worth, Sony seems to be responding by making their keys good at 6:00am Thursday rather than 6:00pm Thursday.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 11-17-2013 11:30 PM                     The preceding ass-kissing of NATO was sponsored by the team of Justin and Randy. Seriously though, NATO has been a toothless lion for many years and will continue to be so for the forseeable future. Face it you guys, digital cinema was forced upon exhibs by the studios with false promises of easier operation, better presentations (not always untrue really) and lower costs. Instead we have systems where something as simple as QC is either prevented or outright not allowed, an absolutely ridiculous feature and trailer naming "standard", and exorbitant costs incurred by the exhibs (excepting those who scored VPFs) for this "upgrade". Not to mention, (as discussed in other threads) the STUDIOS' practice of authoring DCP's with Blu-Ray masters or consumer Blu Rays themselves. The studio's Nazi-like insistence on control has gotten WAY out of hand and has done NOTHING to stop piracy at all. It makes me in my mouth to say that the MPAA has done a better job in the anti-piracy war and we all know how good they are at it. The studios simply don't care anymore about the exhibs at all...if they had their way all "films" would be PPV or direct to video so they can milk that cow dry. Never have I seen an industry that takes such great strides to shoot the messenger when the reality is simple: without the messenger (exhibitors) how will their product ever make any real money? Even grade-school students understand that..why can't the "educated" studio execs?  |  IP: Logged Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-18-2013 09:59 AM                        quote: Sean Weitzel or combination locks on the cans "You'll have the lock code 2 hours before showtime" That's what bolt cutters in the booth were for.  |  IP: Logged Frank Cox Film God Posts: 2234 From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada Registered: Apr 2011 posted 11-18-2013 11:12 AM                        Did anyone ever actually cut those locks off? The ones I saw always came with a scary warning about how you must return the locks in good condition and so forth and so on, or else. I never really knew what the or else would actually be.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-18-2013 01:01 PM                        A personal beef, Justin? Not at all. In fact, I only spent 5 years in commecial theatre many years ago and since then all art-house, non-theatrical operations so my perspective is pretty much as an observer. And my observation has been that for an industry where both the producers of content and the exhibitors of content are so interdependent on each other of it to work, both weild a fairly equal amount of power (without exhibition, the studios would be making nothing but "made for TV movies of the week" and Direct to DVD and cable releases. Yet historically, for whatever economic or cultural reasons, it's been exhibition that has gotten screwed dispite the potential power it has. NATO is the focal point of that power and as I see it from an outsider's perspective, for the most part in things that really count, like the distribution patten/theatrical window protection, it has squandered that power. Again, I am not saying it's the fault of the people who run the organization -- the lack of cohesive action for the exhibitors benefit can be placed right at the feet of the exhibitors themselves. As I have said before, competition between the theatre owners and their inability to become a united front is the real problem. NATO just happens to be the focal point of that inability. The MPAA on the other hand, doesn't seem to have that problem at all. It speaks with the solidarity of all the majors and exhibition seems pretty powerless in comparison. As for the CBG, again only as an observer, but hearing all the negative chatter about that branch of NATO from all the Drive-In theatre owners -- the most vulnerable, truely Mom & Pop operators in the independent segment -- it sounded to me like the CBG for the most part was ineffective. I read some of the materials sent out by the CBG early on which sounded alot like bullying and scare tactics rather than a cooperative effort ("better join CGB or else you can will go under and we won't look to us for help later on," or words pretty much to that effect) and in the end, CBG offered nothing useful. The owners were told they had to join, but CBG wouldn't reveal what the supposed with deal was that they were buying into. Turns out, the reality is that all of the DI owners who didn't join CBG now have converted to digital; they did it on their own and are doing fine. The idea that CBG got any substantial "deals" with their buying power -- that was the promise -- never materialized...not for the digital conversion, not even for booth supplies like xenon lamps and such. At least that's what the majority of DI owners were saying; they got no better deals on supplies than any owner could have negotiated on his/her own. As for VPFs, for most DIs anyway, they found that they were better off financially without CBG's negotiated VPFs, and operate well without them. Again, this is only an opinion I have formed by reading all threads about CBG on the Drive-in blog over a number of years, with the majority of posts being negative, and by reading the statements from CBG itself.  |  IP: Logged Edward Havens Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 614 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2008 posted 11-18-2013 03:23 PM                     I guess bitching and complaining does make a difference. We just an email from Deluxe letting us know we will get a key to unlock the full feature and properly QC on Wednesday night... from 10pm to 1am.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 11-18-2013 04:13 PM                        Ed, I hope we get the same. For those looking for the Test "R1TestCatchingFire_TEST..." CPL, it will be under Test or Other in your LMS. If you're looking in the Feature content, you won't find it.  |  IP: Logged Philip Jones Film Handler Posts: 90 From: England Registered: Dec 2011 posted 11-20-2013 11:38 AM                     In the UK we got sent a KDM that starts at 00:01 which is the time of the first show. I rang up and they did agree to send a new KDM which starts at 22:30, but when I've loaded it onto our server (Dolby DSS200), it still only lists the original KDM in the feature 'properties' box. It does list the 22:30 KDM when you view 'all licences' however. I assume it's got confused somehow by having two future KDMs Does anyone know if it unlock at 22:30 or not?  |  IP: Logged

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