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Author Topic: Life Span of DPL Chips Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-05-2014 11:55 AM                     I come back to that they ARE having the boards repaired...but only when they are within warranty. So the facility/means to have them repaired exists...they just choose to not offer that service after warranty. I would think it would be a great selling point for service after the sale. As an exhibitor...when you are choosing which projector to purchase...there is the initial bottom line but if you realize you are on the hook for potentially another $5000 here, $2000 there...with one company and it is closer to $500 or $1000 for repairs with another...that can add up fast when one considers all of the potential failures they may have. And what about light engines...they can up upwards of $20K on their own...we have entire projectors now selling for those numbers. Even if one had to buy their first one, those should be able to be "repaired" even if it is mere module changes (DMD, formatter board)...any of those would have to be significantly cheaper than trashing the whole thing. I think there could be a reasonable business in DCinema repairs as the bench level. While I agree if a 16 layer board has damage, it is done...that is not necessarily the case if it is a component sitting on top of it. I also don't see the chance of an outfit not already set up in working on SMT boards ever being able to make a living off of just trying to repair DCinema stuff...though perhaps...if repairs at an average of $1500/each start to add up...then you can probably get a bit of a business since that would be about half the cost (Average) of new modules.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 01-05-2014 01:29 PM                     I'm thinking of failed Enigma boards (log full): I'm sure they can be re-initialized at the factory and after that they would be good as new. I cannot be 100% sure but I think some of the failed boards can be restored by software or maybe just replacing some easy-to-replace components. Also, some boards are swapped for no reason - just think of a software glitch still not known, Barco/NEC/Christie would swap the board to then find out it's not a HW problem. The returned board is simply a working one.  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-05-2014 02:47 PM                     Repairing circuit boards is a complex operation. It requires a testing jig that will properly exercise all of the components on the board. This test jig would be very costly to construct and could only do one board. A manufacturer would have this type of test equipment for verifying the quality of boards constructed in house or supplied by a contractor. There would be only a few similar boards that could be expected at an independent service facility so the cost of the jig would be prohibitive. Then there is the matter of proprietary chips and their availability. Not everyone can access these components for replacement use. Unless the manufacturer would give you access to their proprietary components, it would still be impossible to repair the boards. All warranty boards returned to the manufacturer would be checked on the test jig before discarding them. Good ones, due to "black box" type replacement, would be acceptable for the term "refurbished" as we know it. Nothing other than testing may have been done to the board. Soldering and occasional component replacement could also return a board to useful service. These boards cannot be sold as "new" even if they would work the same as a new one. The best solution would be for the manufacturer to supply boards on an exchange basis thereby they would get all of the boards back and could test and recycle operable ones, discard defective ones and determine possible weaknesses in the design or components for future modification. Boards would be supplied at a fixed "exchange" price based on the worst case failure. All proprietary components would remain under the control of the manufacturer.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 01-05-2014 03:25 PM                       Christie sold me refurbished enigma boards as new. Predictably, a problem cropped up a few days in which was probably there since new. Dolby has pretty much stopped supplying advance replacements for boards or units out of warranty. You need to send in the bad unit and wait for it. Nice trick if you don't have a replacement in hand. I had one transaction where I needed to order a new power supply for a DP2000. It arrived air freight from Belgium at a cost of around $3,000 and was a used unit with bolts rolling around inside the unit. Ultimately, I did not pay but it's just an indicator of what's to come. We're not in Kansas anymore.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 01-05-2014 03:37 PM                     quote: Sam D. Chavez Dolby has pretty much stopped supplying advance replacements for boards or units out of warranty. You need to send in the bad unit and wait for it The reason for doing that really escapes me.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 01-05-2014 04:04 PM                     IMHO, making a business out of repairing failed DCI components will be rather hard, especially without help from the manufacturers and they probably already have their contractors for equipment repairs if they don't do it in-house. There sure is a limited market for "easy repairs" like re-soldering obvious loose contacts, etc. But since you're harming the business model of those manufacturers, they are not interested into helping you at all. Additionally, many of those components, like those enigma link decryption boards, are built to be as unserviceable as possible by external engineers, those things were designed as a black box on purpose. Like Kenneth already eloquently explained, repairing a modern PCB is a complex operation, you need specialized testing equipment and instructions what to test. This isn't your 70's TV. . Also, most people don't have a few spare DCI projectors lying around to freely experiment with. It's not like a $400 gadget you can afford to blow up once in a while. quote: Sam D. Chavez Christie sold me refurbished enigma boards as new. Predictably, a problem cropped up a few days in which was probably there since new. That's a common practice in almost all businesses nowadays. In the manufacturers mind, the "new" unit only needs to last for the warranty period covered and most warranty terms explicitly state they can do that. I think, Barco, Christie, NEC and the likes could learn a thing or two from Cisco, Juniper and the likes. They offer warranty and support contracts that can be extended, until the product is deemed End of Life (which is at least 5 years after End-of-Sale in case of Cisco, for popular products it is sometimes extended) and which are not directly bound to the age of the equipment. All spare parts, software updates and replacements are covered flat fee. You can even take equipment out of the support contract once it goes out of operation and take it back in, once it goes back into operation. It also doesn't matter if it is second hand equipment or not, as long as you can prove you legally acquired it. For big chains, it will probably better to judge and take the risk and invest in spare parts or a custom service contract of your own, but for small shops, those kind of contracts can give peace of mind.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-05-2014 04:21 PM                     Here is the kicker...look at the most costly items in a DCinema projector...aside from the rectifier, if it isn't Sony, it is made by Texas Instruments. The ICP board and Enigma module is the same physical board for all three OEM brands. TI should have the means to "renew" them short of a PCB failure. As for Dolby...they have moved a bit from their prior stance of non-service for out of warranty items. Though I believe the deal is now...that if your unit is out of warranty, they will supply a "loaner" unit while your unit is repaired returned. This is for "mission critical" items. While not as ideal as the traditional repair/exchange program of yesteryear since one has to reinstall and ship something twice...it is better than the "well...by a new one" policy that seems to be going around. Heck, with things like a CP750...if you aren't a single or a small plex, having a "spare" would make sense and put it on line immediately while the company spare is sent out for repairs. The same could be said of many things in DCinema...up to a point. The smaller you are, the more cost prohibitive this becomes though. In the US...at least, there are extended warranty plans available...but if you look at them...they only "work" if you are a single or a VERY small plex. The cost is typically 2500-$3000/year/projector. If you are a single...it allows you to buy a light engine on the 10-year plan. But lets say you are a 6-plex. At $3K a year per projector...that is $18K a year in "extended warranty"...so by the end of the second year of extended warranty...you could have bought an entire projector to rob for parts. The bigger you are, the dumber the deal is. What the manufacturers should do is at least offer a plan that makes sense or just over the larger chains a suitable "Spares kit" that has all of the major "take you down" components. Yeah, it will be nearly the price of a projector but you can strategically place them in your regions so that you have replacements handy. And several dozen projectors can feed off them. So if you use a $5K board in a region that has 50 projectors..the region only had to buy effectively a $500 board for that time period rather than a warranty for each and every projector.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 01-05-2014 04:56 PM                     Christie offered a standard extended warranty of 3 years, maybe there are other plans available if you specifically ask. There's also Christie Managed Services, but that's the other extreme and a rather costly solution... I agree that such service plans become increasingly "dumb" once you have sufficient volume, but once you have volume you also have some weight during price negotiations. What you describe, is already essentially how the manufacturers handle their warranty and service. They usually strategically place spare parts in warehouses around the globe and will keep them at some minimum levels, they will never stock grossly more than absolutely required. They're obviously trying to make money out of their after-sales service offerings and they're probably not going to cut their margins on that one. There might be some market for integrators that would be willing to take some risk and offer some "extended warranty" plans at grossly reduced rates that operate the way you explained. That way, independent cinemas could also benefit from it. There is a bit of a catch though: the ever increasing number of models will make it hard to have spare parts available for each and every model.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 01-05-2014 05:17 PM                       Dolby set some very high standards for cinema service as they were building the brand. It helps to have a benign despot as the owner instead of being a publicly traded company with boards of directors and all the inevitable and seemingly weird rules. Dolby is not alone in this change for sure but IHMO, they had farther to fall. Of course, I would say that being part of the first generation of Dolby cinema guys.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-05-2014 08:34 PM                     quote: Sam D. Chavez We're not in Kansas anymore And Omaha is now moving it's warehouse to Atlanta! (They were close to Kansas at one time.)  |  IP: Logged

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