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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » cp2230 v nc3200s v dp2k - 32b (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: cp2230 v nc3200s v dp2k - 32b
Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 12-15-2013 12:50 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just had my first board failure(ICP)ever in an NEC and it was a board they don't even manufactrure! That is... my first failure in over 200 installations of NEC Series 2. I've had to reseat boards in perhaps three or four NEC's in the last couple years but I attribute the rare need to do this because when I do installs I also always remove all the boards and reseat them as well as go over all the connectors and cables inside. I don't tink a lot of techs either have the time or take the time to do this on install. It was always something we did with new broadcast equipment when it got installed and I kept that habit. And... new broadcast gear rarely EVER worked out of the box or crate. All DLP projectors have functioned as intended out of the box which is pretty amazing if you ask me.

As for updates... Generally twice a year although I have some that I do more often. I have not seen any correlation at all between doing updates and projector reliability factor.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 12-16-2013 02:08 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have had 2 ICP failure in the 1200c's and one lamp ballast in a 1200c as well and a light engine that the blue formatter died in a 900c
but far more ballasts in the christie 2210's have had to be replaced

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 12-16-2013 08:40 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have had 1 ICP in an NEC fail within the first week, 1 ICP fail in a Barco (this week), 1 Christie ballast fail, 1 Christie LVPS fail, 1 NEC LPS fail, probably 3 Barco LPS fail and one or two Barco Cinema controllers fail. In the light engine department...I've had one outright fail and one that had a stuck pixel within a week of installation (both Barco "C" projectors). Now my ratio of Barco the rest is about 85/15 percentage wise. So I would expect more Barco failures. I've had probably 5 enigma modules fill up on me spread between NEC and Barco.

With NEC I get weird failures that come and go..."Tamper Fail" when nothing seems amiss and it doesn't interfere with the show and may or may not clear itself. There was a period when the NEC software couldn't deal with ICP 4.x software if you were doing an image shift for vertical masking...it may or may not shift...that was addressed eventually. But NEC is definitely to strange one for out-of-the-blue error messages. Their tail-lights going red for a lamp age is plain dumb. Red should be reserved for things that will prevent the show from running NOW.

I get the most ICP Signature Test failures from Christie...then from NEC and to a much lesser extent from Barco...I have no reason for this since they all use the same ICPs and same ICP software...perhaps Barco doesn't give that test any attention. Christie will flat out tell you to disable the test to shut it up.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 12-16-2013 08:46 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
People tend to have less repeatability on InVision lenses (zoom on the 1.2"/1.38"). InVision also have very heavy lenses that are far more likely to exaggerate any shakes making their way to the projector. Since the lenses are gripped so far back, particularly on the Barco, this can cause issues with Barco's flimsy lens mount on the B series. Note, Barco has come out with a new lens mount to address the shakes. The jury is out on if they have addressed it sufficiently. I have had steady B Barcos and unsteady B Barcos. This is not to say that I have not had random issues with the others but there is more than a trend on a Barco B series with an InVision lens. I have not tried the new lens mount yet on the B Barcos.
Vibrations here, even after the "upgrade" -- which you have to pay extra for.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 12-16-2013 09:43 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny...did you get the more recent upgrade (within the past few months)? The other one you shouldn't have had to pay for...your projector should have been in warranty. That was just a stabilization kit.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 12-16-2013 09:50 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No! I didn't know anything about further improvement to the lens situation. (IIRC, that stabilization kit wasn't something they openly talked about either. I had to go digging for that.)

I specifically challenged the extra charge for the stabilization kit, stating that it was really a "fix" for a design flaw on their part. Barco insisted it was an upgrade.

As it turned out, one of the motors in our lens mount failed right around that time. The replacement lens holder assembly had the stabilization kit pre-installed. So, in the end, we did not have to pay extra for the stabilization kit.

I'm curious about this new thing you're talking about.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 12-16-2013 10:43 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Manny Knowles
I specifically challenged the extra charge for the stabilization kit, stating that it was really a "fix" for a design flaw on their part. Barco insisted it was an upgrade.
Barco is full of shit. Their original design WAS and IS flawed. They just don't want to admit it for fear they will have to actually put forth money to fix their screwup. They owe it to everyone that bought a B machine to supply it free of charge at a minimum. They should actually be covering the tech's expense to travel to each theater and install it too.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

- posted 12-17-2013 12:05 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, could you tell us more about the new Barco lens holder?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 12-17-2013 05:17 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
Their tail-lights going red for a lamp age is plain dumb.
Of course that is technician settable and you can essentially shut it off until the lamp life ends if you like at which point the tail light turn red. Most of my customers appreciate a 50 to 100 hour warning on this because they can then schedule the person (or tech in some cases) that knows how to change the lamp to be there at the appropriate time. NC-1200's and 2000's can have somewhat flakey lamp door switches. It can be adjusted but I have had several on install that cause quirky tamper errors. It's an easy fix.

Mark

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

- posted 12-17-2013 06:41 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark,

I believe Steve was talking about the colour of the alert. A lamp running past its warranty should come up with a YELLOW light. RED status lights should be only used for show-stopper events - and I agree with that.

The customer should know that RED = need to have a look.

Same RED alarm comes up when the Power On fan exceeds the recommended hours. I don't see it as a critical alarm, you can delay it a week and nothing will happen. That's a yellow for me.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 12-18-2013 07:01 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Exactly. RED = NO SHOW. And it should be reserved for that on all DCP stuff...servers, projectors. Ambler/Yellow/Orange...should be the "you should do something about this before I turn red" notification. I think NEC was just plain wrong for using red to notify someone of a non-show stopping event.

I give Barco marks in this category that user-discretionary events like lamp changes or even filter cleanings turn the tail light blue. It is something that YOU the user has to address and the projector thinks you should do it now. But no, there is no immediate danger of losing a show. Now if you don't clean/change your filters, the temps can rise and you'll then get a yellow light...but that is controlled by the the fact that your lack of maintenance is now actually causing an issue that will lead to a red tail light and no show.

Christie strikes a reasonable balance on their tail lights with just three colors.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 12-18-2013 07:35 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have no comments on the service issues, but, as an operator, I will take the Christie, mostly because of the touch panel and the automated lamp alignment feature (not sure if the NEC does automated lamp alignment, but Barco does not, at least in the default configuration). One can walk into a random booth with a Christie and be able to do anything that needs doing on them (at least as an operator) without a separate laptop or other items.

Note that Christie and Barco lenses come in different ranges (last I checked, anyway), so the lens that you need may dictate the projector that you need, unless you want to swap out lenses for different formats. (For example, if you have a 13x31' common-height screen and a 113' throw, the Christie is not the machine for you, anamorphics notwithstanding.)

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Fernando Caldeira
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Lisbon , Portugal
Registered: Mar 2010

- posted 12-18-2013 08:29 AM      Profile for Fernando Caldeira   Author's Homepage   Email Fernando Caldeira   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you all for the replyes. Tis beeing very helpfull.

I think these are the importante facts in my litle world:

1- Wil be changing lamps beteween 2D and 3D. Doing 10 3D shows a year +-.

2- Will be doing many festivals and premieres with directors and producers present.

3- Mate screen 49x18' with 101' throw distance.

4- Money is an issue.

Oh by the way, im going for the 4K projector. So now itīs between the CP4230 , NC3240 and DP4k-32B

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 12-18-2013 10:18 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
If money is an issue you won't be going 4k.

Also if money is an issue, you won't be going Barco with the intention of buying a second lamphouse for 3D shows, as its expensive.

And finally if money is an issue, you may find it is cheaper to change the screen to a 1.8 gain than buy a larger size projector and burn larger lamps. (Some exceptions are made to that generalization, as the specifics would have to be ran through a calculator.)

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 12-18-2013 10:34 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott,

Barco does have a motorized OPTION though it is not nearly as good as Christie is standard. Barco's motorized system can take well over 10-minutes to fiddle around with the lamp and get you only 80-90% there. Christie's current system on series 2 take a couple of minutes and it is pretty much right on...it is quite impressive to see work.

NEC...we'll no...they don't even do manual alignment well (and I'm not kidding). If you like the Christie "H" series console lamp alignments...you'll be right at home with the NEC...three allen key adjusters with a rather impressive amount of slop in the gears to make adjusting the lamp "interesting". Also, NEC's light sensor is a hit and miss...often it will read a brighter number even though the illumination isn't brighter.

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