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Author Topic: Looking for good technician in Mexico. Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-02-2014 04:15 AM                     quote: Carlos Villalpando I don't know for sure if the company actually wants it done this way, because I've heard other locations sound really great. I don't know why the tech chose to act this way. Maybe he saw no one was supervising, took advantage of it and did it the quick way. Sound is not like picture. If your colour meter says 0.314 x 0.351, you're done. Sound measurement is flawed. Dolby curve does not tell the truth all the time. Dialing the X-curve and walk away will give you random results depending on the acoustic of the room, the equipment status etc. etc. Dialing the X-Curve with the auto-EQ will give you even more poor results. The other cinema may have better acoustic and the X-curve sounds better there. It is not so easy, if you have three different sound engineers there, they will end up with three different results and they will do things differently from each other. What you can say is that you're not happy with the sound and you want someone back. You should also consider the possibility that there is nothing wrong with your sound and that your personal taste is telling you it is.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-02-2014 02:19 PM                     Actually I disagree on this. If you use an R-2 or D-2 analyzer there is actually a lot of meaning and truth built into the curve you've created. It is also repeatable and very accurate. Well worth the investment. Using a single mic or other 4 mc system is virtually a waste of time and does not afford any real curve. If you do sound and you don't at least own an R-2 then you aren't really a sound tech in my opinion. Mark  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-02-2014 03:49 PM                        quote: Mark Gulbrandsen If you use an R-2 or D-2 analyzer there is actually a lot of meaning and truth built into the curve you've created. It is also repeatable and very accurate. I do not doubt that this applies in the case of a good room and good equipment. Still, I would argue tha there is only so much that can be done with EQ in the case of a bad room or with poorly specified equipment. Lots of old theatres have one or more nasty resonant frequencies, and setups involving loudspeakers intended for music reproduction and not cinema use seem to vary widely based on the crossover point(s) being used. (I am not claiming that this is the case here. One can reasonably expect that a modern multiplex would have good equipment and acoustical treatment.)  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-03-2014 11:26 AM                     Alas, but there are a lot of little things one can do that help the overall picture of how well the system works in a given room. I can't begin to tell you how many speakers I have found that are 12" and further from the back side of the screen. Some installer just don't get it. Poor aiming is also very common, out of phase LF and he, old diaphragms not performing to spec, filthy backside of screens, etc. Add correcting those together and you can some times make a pretty drastic improvement with out spending a dime on material. I've never had any really awful rooms to service and the few that I run into I have turned them down. It's pretty simple really... If an exhibitor isn't interested in at least some quality of presentation then he doesn't deserve my service nor do I want to be associated with his cinema. I have yet to encounter a system the R-2 didn't make a positive difference on... One also has to be aware of what an existing system is capable of and try not to exceed that lest you shorten it's life span.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-03-2014 05:13 PM                     Mark, You're disagreeing with the physics behind the X-curve then. The reverberant field depends on the acoustic. That is why there are several X-curves and other approaches. The D2 have several curves to display on screen depending on the size of the room: if you own a D2 you must have noted them. How do you choose which curve to use? How can you confirm the curve you used was the correct one if you just walk away after dialing the 'Dolby curve'? You must have reference material and you must play it after the EQ. Walking away is just plain wrong. The D2 is a better tool but if you don't use it properly you will still achieve a pretty poor job. The best screwdriver won't prevent you from damaging a screw if you don't use it properly.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-04-2014 12:31 PM                     Which curve used depends on the volume of the room you are setting up. The best feature of these analyzers is they are able to take the room into account during the process, even the R-2 does this. You can't do that with any other single or multiple mic system that's commercially available. And you can go back and repeat all this in the same room at a later date and arrive at exactly the same results. Even fully horn loaded systems benefit from using this analyzer. Mark  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-04-2014 01:26 PM                     if you mean going back to the same room, dial the same curve and obtain the same result, I agree. But that is not what you disagreed with in the first place. We are talking about someone walking in a room for 20 minutes, dialing a curve and walking away. You may have the D3, it wouldn't give you a known result. A multiplexer helps, but the basic physics behind stands. Size of the room = reverberation time. Two identical rooms, one very dead and one very lively, won't work with the same X-Curve - hence the need of reference material and the need of a proper engineer.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-04-2014 06:32 PM                     Well of course one always runs some known familiar material after he is done to verify the system and make minor tweeks... no matter what. I used to carry a couple reels of film, now I carry a couple hard drives. There is going to be some minor differences for sure but I always find myself making just small adjustments. And the fact stands that the R-x analyzer is going to give you something that's very close to the x-curve in a given room where a standard multiplexer analyzer isn't. That's the main reason this analyzer series even exists in the first place! You seem to ignore that the R-x series does take the room into account through spatial averaging in it's processing. This eliminates for the most part the sound only being good where you measured it from. I can't think of any overly live room today that I service. In fact I likely wouldn't service a room that is so far out of spec unless the owner would want to make some attempt to bring reverb decay time into a reasonable range. It isn't that difficult to do unless it's a really huge room. If he can't afford to do that he is probably a shoestring operation who likely shouldn't even be in business in the first place. If you have rooms like this I feel for you... The only exception to this might be very old Landmark Status theaters where you can not modify anything... at least they will try to make you think that. Landmark status generally only covers the exterior of a building. I have done work in many movie palaces that did proper acoustical treatment in a very tasteful way. Mark  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-05-2014 03:29 AM                     I disagree with that Mark. The D2 does a good job in averaging the response from the microphones but the difference between rooms in terms of HF needed to achieve your target can be huge. Just look at the variable curves available on the D2. You will have to choose one and confirm it is correct. You cannot do that without listening (I appreciate you are not saying that a test is not required). And again, it seems that in the US your customers are smarter; it seems that - particularly with Digital - you never have to deal with bare, lively rooms with speakers installed in them and no sign of acoustic treatment. Well, lucky you.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-05-2014 10:52 AM                     Marco... I'm not saying there aren't any live rooms here... It's just that to me in this day and age of high technology that is a sign of a sloppy theater operator or one that really doesn't care and there is usually little to no money in servicing locations. So why bother, and why risk my reputation just to make a few dollars? On the other hand if an owner is willing to do at least some work to his room to bring it into spec then fine... I'd be happy to work with him. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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