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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Author
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Topic: digital conversion gone bad
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Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-27-2014 06:53 AM
These two quotes are a prime example of why I hate digital. Yes, I hate it. You throw a technology and process out the door (into the scrap yard - literally), one that basically lasted for a hundred years (film)- and go out and invest in a technology that won't last 5 to ten years. Where was the common sense in that?
quote: Mike Blakesley
I sincerely hope that by the time we're ready to upgrade again, prices will have gone down somewhat.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
I'm afraid you can kiss the hope for selective upgrades on stuff like projectors goodbye. While there are a few models that can, for example, be upgraded from 2K to 4K, those prices are so outrageous, you're better off buying a new projector. The same goes for stuff like servers. This is just basic PC server hardware, which get old very fast. The upgrade path generally is: Buy a new one. Of course, with a little bit of planning and insight in the technology at hand, you can still spread out investments.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-27-2014 09:56 AM
quote: Dennis Benjamin
You throw a technology and process out the door (into the scrap yard - literally), one that basically lasted for a hundred years (film)- and go out and invest in a technology that won't last 5 to ten years. Where was the common sense in that?
Digital made perfect sense for movie distributors. They're saving hundreds of thousands of dollars with each movie release not having to make thousands of 35mm film prints. Portable hard discs are a lot less expensive to buy & ship. Those hard drives are re-usable.
Those guys opened a can of worms on the production and archiving side (digital isn't turning out to be such a cost saving measure there). But that was only something they found out years later. Now they're trying to keep Kodak from totally going out of business so they'll at least be able to keep archiving movies on film prints that last a hell of a lot longer than any digital media.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
I also don't understand the idea of DONATING to a for-profit business. If you raise funds, you should at least give shares in your business in return. I would never donate money to a for-profit business without actually investing in it, yet it seems there are sufficient people that are willing to do so... Maybe we're all in the wrong business
The model of grabbing huge sums of money from the public to fund business expenses has worked for organizations like the National Football League. Get the taxpayers to pony up much of the cost for a new $1 billion+ stadium with all its ultra expensive luxury sky boxes. Don't give those taxpayers shit in terms of discounts for tickets and other items. Hell, rape their wallets for the parking fees.
quote: Carsten Kurz
Why shouldn't people decide freely wether to donate money to any matter they want, be it profit, non-profit or anything in-between?
It could be worse. Americans are pissing hundreds of billions of dollars away every year into casinos and not getting anything out of that. Still, I think it's pretty strange for a for-profit, private business to be asking for public donations.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
I suppose when you ask money for X, but end up spending it on Y and Z instead, you're actually committing some form of fraud.
That would only be if some kind of contract was involved, like what a governmental entity would have to do with tax dollars or what an registered non profit charity did with its donations. From what it sounds like here donors were just giving money to a private business operator based on verbal "good faith" it would be spent properly. There's no guarantees there.
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Kyle Mitchell
Film Handler
Posts: 23
From: Streator, Illinois, USA
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 08-27-2014 12:18 PM
I totally agree that a for profit business should not be asking for donations, but they did. When I owned the business in The Majestic (2007-2009), I remember him feeling like the community owed him something and suggesting that I ask for donations, but I wouldn't. I think it would have been very difficult for him not to know that the money was being begged for, there was a huge donation thermometer on the door of his building for years and the efforts were clearly on his website. He was also partners in the Will Rogers in Charleston, Il, where they were also asking for public handouts.
I met Tim in 1979 in a theatre in Phoenix, we were friends for a long time but that doesn't really matter because I don't think that friendship or loyalty mean a damn thing to him.
Yes Tony, I remember that road trip. You made a few trips there over the years didn't you? Did he pay you for your work? I made almost yearly trips there for about ten years to work on his building for a week at a time. I never got paid for any of that work. I looked at it like I was being loyal to a friend and helping him be successful. I know different now.
"Uncharacteristic", seriously Tony? You didn't ever witness any of the Tim Burke freak out sessions? Weren't you at the Majestic when he yelled and screamed degrading things at his father with a group of people in the lobby, before locking the old man in the basement?
I bet there are others on here who could tell of some about his freak outs, but here is a good one: It was 1984 we were installing 70mm at the LaReina in Sherman Oaks for Mann, needed a Dolby card, there was one not being used at the Fox Hollywood. He went to pick it up and started freaking out yelling at his union brother. The manager came into the booth to see what the commotion was just as Tim started throwing things and got hit in the head with a shelf. I believe the manager was carted away in an ambulance and assault charges were filed. He was banned from all Mann Theatres and lost his coveted gig at the Bruin in Westwood.
In 2007, Tim and his "partner" Katie practically begged me and my family to move across country to open the Majestic. We spent about three months there working very hard on the theatre because it was not in any condition to be a first run venue.
To get me out of the place, he used our love of the building against us, telling us that some big money people from Pennsylvania gave him a huge deposit that he couldn't turn down and they were going to take care of the major problems with the building and make it a sustainable business.
My last conversation with him five years ago had him saying that he would send me some cash for the theatre furnishings that I was leaving in there. After I left peacefully like he wanted, knowing that I have always made my living in the theatre industry, he proceeded to tell other theatre owners and film company sales representatives that I had abandon and thrashed his theatre. Then he and his "partner" opened the place themselves.
20th Century Fox is one of the companies who mandated this digital conversion at the expense of theatre owners. Yes, I believe the Majestic is one of the many theatres that the extra huge expense of new equipment every few years would just put out of business, but the fact of the matter is that the Streator movie-goers wanting the theatre to not be closed opened their pocket books to pick up the tab so that Fox could save on print costs.
For their employee to freak out because the "(bad word) digital proctors" were in his building and then just deny them access to the new equipment seems very wrong to me.
What's the matter, doesn't Fox pay their employees enough, so they have to screw over the small community movie-goers to try to get ahead in life? Does Hollywood just not give a shit about movie-goers?
These type of people really degrade the theatre industry in my opinion.
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Kyle Mitchell
Film Handler
Posts: 23
From: Streator, Illinois, USA
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 08-28-2014 10:31 AM
Dear Congressman Kinzinger,
I believe that a 20th Century Fox employee has stolen about $130,000.00 in donations from Streator.
As you should already know that media conglomerate and others have mandated the very expensive conversion to digital projection in theatres to save them huge money not having to produce 35mm prints, as has been done for over a hundred years. The huge cost of the conversion was pushed on to theatre owners, who in turn were forced to turn the cost over to the movie-goers with higher ticket prices, which also results in more film rental for the studio since it is based on a percentage of ticket price. Now that some studios are not releasing their biggest movies on 35mm, there are many small town theatres like the Majestic in Streator that would be forced out of business. I have been reading about businesses that have been in families for generations serving smaller communities being shuttered by this. This alone is wrong in my opinion and never should have been allowed to happen.
Tim Burke, the owner of the Majestic Theatre building in Streator, I believe is also an employee of 20th Century Fox, living in the Los Angeles area, and president of Stone Soup Entertainment, an Illinois for-profit corporation that was operating the Majestic. For years, the corporation has been soliciting the public for donations to fund the conversion and "Save the Majestic". In June they announced they had collected $130,000.00, enough for the conversion. Monday night the theatre was boarded up with a for sale sign placed on it. Tuesday's Times Newspaper reported that the Majestic was closed indefinitely, by Tim Burke. I called Fox to ask for answers, but they have not return my calls.
Movie-goers in Streator opened the wallets to fund Hollywood's huge savings and now just months later can not enjoy movies. Certainly that can't seem right to you, can it?
I am confident that there has to be something that you can do to correct this. I know that the studios have strong lobbying efforts in Washington. Please help the movie-goers of Streator and the rest of the country. I am sending a copy of this letter to media outlets and posting it on social media because I feel strongly that this really needs to be corrected quickly.
Thank You,
Kyle Mitchell
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David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 08-28-2014 04:29 PM
quote: Kyle Mitchell
I totally agree that a for profit business should not be asking for donations...
In our district there used to be a single screen 60 seat for-profit cinema (35mm and DVD) housed in a building owned by the (municipal) Council, ie by the community, and the operator paid rent to the Council. The earthquakes caused the building to be closed, and thus the community lost it's local cinema. Whilst the building was closed (reopening 2015) the digital revolution happened.
The rebuilt building now has a pair of about 40 seat cinemas, with the plan being that all the outfitting costs (including full digital installation, but not the concession stand etc) are paid for by the Council, with the intention of recoveing the investment in the rental charged to the operator.
But... no operator (there was an open tender) could make the sums work, and thus there was a serious possibility of no cinema. Thus the Council suggested that to get an operator to sign up would need the community to stump up $3 on the rates for every household. Submissions to the council on the issue (and the letters page of the local rag) indicated that the people were willing to pay this to get a cinema back.
We'll have to see how it works out in practice, but it appears that the community is getting a cinema! And it is a private operator effectively being partially funded by (enforced) donations. But its not just a case of a handshake deal and money chaning hands, there is full disclosure and much paperwork.
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Kyle Mitchell
Film Handler
Posts: 23
From: Streator, Illinois, USA
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 08-29-2014 06:26 PM
She gained access to the building, took the digital equipment, popper, candy, etc.
It sounds like there are big legal battles in store. Police Department says it's a civil matter.
I see no way the place will ever re-open. I am waiting to hear back from his realtor who told me already that the equipment was included to see how much the price will be reduced to now that Tim doesn't have the donated equipment to include in his sale.
His non-digital, boarded up, falling apart building in a small declining market isn't even worth the amount of his mortgage, in my opinion.
There is not and probably not likely ever be motion picture entertainment for the people of Streator, even after $130,000 was donated under the ruse that there would be.
Greedy people ruin the industry that some of us have worked our entire lives in, truly care about, and really enjoy when it is done right. What a shame!
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